Simba Makoni on Question Time: Part 1

Former Finance Minister and Zanu PF politburo member, Simba Makoni, is the guest on Question Time. Makoni now leads the Mavambo/Kusile/Dawn party and joins journalist Lance Guma to answer questions from SW Radio Africa listeners.

The former SADC Executive Secretary responds to accusations that he split the opposition vote in 2008, when he suddenly ran as an independent presidential candidate without a strong political party behind him.

Interview broadcast 11 April 2012

Lance Guma: Good evening Zimbabwe and thank you for joining me on Question Time. My guest tonight is former Finance Minister and ZANU PF politburo member, Dr Simba Makoni. We asked listeners to send in their questions for Dr Makoni who now leads the Mavambo/Kusile/Dawn political party.

Thank you for joining us Dr Makoni.

Simba Makoni: It’s my pleasure, thank you very much Lance.

Guma: The most asked question from our listeners is almost an accusation directed at you; many people who have submitted their questions accuse you of having split the opposition vote in March 2008 to the benefit of Mugabe and Zanu PF. Let’s start off with your response to that.

Makoni: Firstly Lance I would like to disabuse anyone of the notion of splitting votes. First, Zimbabweans are entitled to their choice. It’s a choice of two, a choice of four, a choice of ten – it’s their democratic right so when I offered myself to stand for president I wasn’t taking away votes from anyone.

I was giving those people who did not want to vote for Mugabe or Tsvangirai an opportunity to vote for someone else. All the people who voted for me would not have voted for Mugabe or Tsvangirai so I think it’s rather misdirected that they think I split votes.

Guma: Some will say in fighting a dictatorship unity is key and your last-minute throwing of your hat into the ring, confused matters.

Makoni: I don’t believe so. Unity is important in any cause that people fight for but that unity needs to be anchored on common vision, common values and common expectations, common standards. The important thing is not to highlight what we are against but what we are for and when I offered myself to stand for president I offered myself not because I was against so-and-so.

It was because I was for unity, I was for peace, I was for tolerance, I was for inclusion and more importantly, I was for competence and restoring the efficacy of our economy and our social services. That’s what I offered Zimbabweans. I didn’t offer them to be against anybody, so I wasn’t against Tsvangirai, I wasn’t against Mugabe, I was for Zimbabweans.

Guma: But at the time some will say you didn’t have any solid political party behind you and your candidacy was never going to work.

Makoni: Well I think it’s a debatable point; I didn’t have a political party that’s true, I stood as an independent candidate and I made it very clear on February 5 2008 when I announced I was going to stand for president that I was standing as an independent candidate but we still built up a machinery that enabled us to campaign countrywide and to garner, according to the ZEC of George Chiweshe, 8.43% of the votes.

There’s a lot of discussion about whether that number is accurate or not but the point I want to make is – yes I didn’t have a political party, we built up a campaign organization all the same that supported an independent candidate. The most important thing is what do you stand for? What are you campaigning for not how?

Whether through a political party, through an independent movement, the more important issue is what is it you are offering the people and the electorate and there was no doubt about what it is I offered the Zimbabwean electorate in March 2008.

Guma: One of your key allies at the time was former Home Affairs minister and also politburo member Dr Dumiso Dabengwa. Now I spoke to Dr Dabengwa in 2008 and he said the basic strategy behind your candidacy was to stop either Morgan Tsvangirai or Mugabe from being president and that you had succeeded in your objectives. Would you agree with that line of thinking?

Makoni: Obviously not. If you recall what I just said about what it is I stood for, it wouldn’t be that. I wasn’t against anybody, I was for Zimbabweans. If Dr Dabengwa understood our programme and campaign at that time to be against Morgan Tsvangirai then quite clearly we misunderstood each other.

Guma: Still on Dr Dabengwa, several questions from people, several people who have contributed, Mary in Bulawayo would like to understand the basis of your falling out with Dr Dabengwa. He initially was behind you but then left Zanu PF to form his, or to revive Zapu rather. What happened there?

Makoni: Well I think Dr Dabengwa would be the best person to answer that question. He told me he was leaving our movement, at that time we did not have a party at the end of 2008 when he started reviving Zapu, we were still the movement of volunteers who supported the independent candidate but he told me he was going to revive Zapu and that was his main mission, I wouldn’t hold him prisoner to our movement. We then proceeded to form our party in July of 2009 after Dr Dabengwa had already left.

Guma: Does that not though, send a very negative message that people who are frustrated in the political parties they are in, just move out and go and form their own? Does it not portray a message that politicians at times are merely opportunists who look out for their own interests?

Makoni: Well Lance I won’t deny that we have a brand and a breed of politicians who are opportunists and greedy and selfish. We see it every day here but that’s not me. I don’t know that the mere fact that Dr Dabengwa left our movement to go and form Zapu necessarily suggests greed and opportunism.

What I want to emphasise to Zimbabweans is that the right of choice is theirs and must be undiluted. Even if 40 people offer themselves to be president of Zimbabwe, let the people choose the best out of the 40. Let’s not circumscribe the people’s choice by limiting numbers because the driving force for who people choose is who best represents their yearnings and their aspirations.

Let’s not just play a numbers game.

Guma: The next question comes from Gabriel Gidi; he sent it to us via Face Book and he says – it’s really three questions in one – he says would it be fair to say that Dr Makoni’s party is an election time party? Is it the ego that is driving him or does he actually have a political plan for Zimbabwe and the third part of his question is what is Mavambo’s plan for the coming election?

Makoni: Well all of them can be answered very simply in the following manner. Firstly our party was launched on July 1 2009; there has not been an election since then so I don’t see how anyone can suggest we are an election party.

Secondly – what are we doing? We are building a party with the intention not only of participating in elections but continuously contributing to the political, social and economic life of Zimbabwe. We want to build a party of ideas. One of our by-lines is ‘The party of constant renewal’.

We are about new ideas all the time, not just at election time but indeed when elections do come, we will participate and what we are doing at the moment is to build a party, to publicise our values, our vision for Zimbabwe and to recruit people who share that vision and those values to join us in a party that will build a brighter future for Zimbabweans.

Guma: Sidney Chisi on Face Book sent us the following question: he says is it true the MKD was formed as an instruction from the late General Solomon Mujuru? That in actual fact General Mujuru hoodwinked Dr Makoni and Dumiso Dabengwa to leave Zanu PF as a way to open up space for his wife Joice Mujuru and this being the reason why General Mujuru did not follow you to the new party? What do you make of his theory?

Makoni: Well the answer is no to all those allegations or suggestions.

Guma: What was the role of General Mujuru in the formation of Mavambo?

Makoni: I’m not aware of any. General Mujuru was a member of the politburo of Zanu PF and he stayed so to his last day and I’m not aware of any role that he played and if he had played any role, I would have known.

Guma: There were reports though that he backed your candidacy and in fact he was one of the few, or depending on what the numbers were, one of the senior Zanu PF figures that supported you and encouraged you to challenge Mugabe within Zanu PF.

Makoni: When I was still in Zanu PF, I can confirm to you General Mujuru was one of the comrades who was in conversations about the need for change in the party and the need for change in the country. When I left Zanu PF I am sure he continued to work for change from within Zanu PF as I was working for change from outside Zanu PF.

Guma: One of the people who came out publicly to support you was Dumiso Dabengwa and everyone expected General Mujuru to do the same. Were you slightly disappointed he didn’t do so publicly?

Makoni: Well like I say, I’m not aware that General Mujuru ever wanted to come out and support me and so I couldn’t have been disappointed of something I didn’t know about.

Guma: We move onto the next question: Eugene on Twitter wants to know your views on a proposed age limit in the new constitution for presidential candidates in Zimbabwe. He says can you please ask Dr Makoni what his views are on this clause?

Makoni: We’re very supportive of that. It’s one of the propositions that we put forward. I know we are not the only ones but we subscribe fully to the need for limiting the age at which one holds public office. In the public discussion at home it’s been centred around the president; we have gone beyond just one office to say all national offices, no-one should be eligible to stand for national leadership beyond the age of 70. So we are very fully in support of it.

Guma: How democratic is that clause? If people want someone even at a particular age, why should they be proscribed from voting for that person?

Makoni: Well you must appreciate that you are voted for a purpose. If the purpose is performance then we must all accept that even if the mind and the spirit wills, the body does tire. And if you are 70 and above what more can you offer that you haven’t been able to offer between 18 and 70?

Guma: Godwin Mutematsaka on email says and I quote ‘What are the prospects of you teaming up with Morgan Tsvangirai into a strong, formidable alliance or party that will realistically unseat Zanu PF and Mugabe?

Makoni: I think my answer to Godfrey was partly given when I talked about what we stand for not what we stand against but let me tell you, the prospects are very high of me teaming up with many millions of Zimbabweans to make, to get Zimbabwe working again.

Morgan Tsvangirai could be one of those millions of Zimbabweans that we can team up with but we are not going to single out a particular individual and say we want to team up with them to be against so-and-so.

We are going to team up with them to be for recovery, to be for renewal, to be for development, for tolerance, for inclusion. Any Zimbabwean who subscribes to those values and who is fired up to achieve that objective, I will readily team up with anytime.

Guma: You talk a lot about ideas being what you stand for; some will say politics is a numbers game and it is the numbers that get you into State House, so what sort of strategic alliances are you working on to ensure this because given what the voting patterns were in 2008, you wouldn’t confidently say you have the numbers to go into State House, do you?

Makoni: Well nobody knows what numbers we have at the moment, they can only talk about the numbers we got in March 2008, but let me say that the numbers don’t come for nothing, the numbers come behind ideas. The numbers come in support of ideas. When Barack Obama said ‘yes we can’ and when Deng Xiaoping said ‘China must modernise’, the numbers followed the idea.

So it is important to know what you want to generate or mobilize the numbers for, and that’s why we put a lot of emphasis on the ideas and values and vision because people will not just follow for the sake of following. People will follow where they see hope for a better future.

Guma: Now when you initially launched Mavambo there were some problems with in-fighting, I believe with the likes of Major (Kudzai) Mbudzi and others who made all sorts of accusations. Have you recovered from that period and how would you describe the way you have gone about recruiting members into the new movement?

Makoni: Well let me urge Zimbabweans to get clarity on the facts; Mavambo/Kusile/Dawn the party was launched on July 1 2009, the characters, you are mentioning, Mbudzi, had already left what at that time was the movement of volunteers who supported independent candidate Simba Makoni. So we launched the party already on a strong platform and we are building the party already on a strong platform. There are no discordant voices among us.

Guma: On email Panashe Martin Nyagumbo says and I quote from his question: ‘You are on record as having called out to the electorate to resist participation in elections called by Zanu PF in the current environment which does not guarantee a fair outcome, at the same time I believe you have described the inclusive government as a failure. What do you propose as the best way forward given the existing circumstances you have described?’ Close quote.

Makoni: There are two ways forward: the first one is for the inclusive government to focus merely on creating conditions for free and fair elections so that the people can make their choices, undeterred, unencumbered and without fear.

If however the inclusive government is unable or unwilling to do that then I have proposed a solution that I advanced at the end of the March 2008 elections – that a transitional national authority be created, of broad based leadership that comes from all walks of life, that the mandate of that transitional authority be to prepare the country for free and fair elections and that those of us who are leaders of political parties would not participate in that transitional national authority.

So the first choice, because the inclusive government is in place and they have squandered almost four years of our time, let them commit to creating conditions for free and fair elections. But if they don’t want it as suggested from their actions then let’s have a different entity that will have the mandate of putting the country on a footing for free and fair elections and the rest is for Zimbabweans to judge.

Guma: The truth is, you are clearly aware Zanu PF will not allow that?

Makoni: Well Zanu PF is not the only actor in Zimbabwean life and I don’t believe that Zanu PF is stronger than all of us. So yes, they won’t want it because obviously it will spell doom for them but that’s no deterrent for us who wish and are committed to creating a better Zimbabwe to stay away from making efforts towards that end.

Guma: Well Zimbabwe, we have to end Part One of our interview with the former Finance Minister and Zanu PF politburo member Dr Simba Makoni. We asked listeners to send in their questions for Dr Makoni who now leads the Mavambo/Kusile/Dawn political party. Thank you for joining us on Part One Dr Makoni.

Makoni: It’s my pleasure. If I have a simple wish Lance, I would very much like to be known as the leader of the Mavambo/Kusile/Dawn not as former this and former that. I’m not unhappy about my past involvement with Zanu PF, the government, with Sadc; everything I have done I have done to the best of my ability but let’s not condition people too much to the past.

Guma: Thats Dr Makoni, Part One of Question Time on SW Radio Africa.

To listen to the programme:

http://www.swradioafrica.2bctnd.net/04_12/qt110412.mp3

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