Minister Jameson Timba on Question Time

The Minister of State in the Prime Minister’s Office, Jameson Timba, is the guest on Question Time and joins SW Radio Africa journalist Lance Guma to talk about his arrest last Friday for allegedly calling Mugabe a liar. Freed by a special session of the High Court last Sunday, Timba joins the programme to respond to questions sent in by SW Radio Africa listeners using Facebook, Twitter, Skype, e-mail and text messages. 

Interview broadcast 29 June 2011 

Lance Guma: The Minister of State in the Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai’s Office, Jameson Timba, was on Sunday freed by a special session of the High Court following his controversial arrest on Friday for allegedly calling Robert Mugabe a liar. Justice Joseph Musakwa ordered his release saying there had been a violation of his rights. Minister Timba is my guest on Question Time and we have invited him onto the programme to talk about this and many other issues raised by our listeners who sent in questions via Facebook, Twitter, Skype, e-mail and text messages. Thank you for joining us Minister Timba. 

Jameson Timba: Thank you Lance. 

Guma: Let’s start with Friday, what happened? There were worries over your safety and whereabouts. 

Timba: Well as I was leaving my office around 4.35 and I got to my car and then I found three men standing on my car, surrounded me and then they identified themselves as police and they demanded that I accompany them to Harare Central Police Station.

Guma: Now for some time your party didn’t know where you were and they were all worried that you had been abducted. During this period were you taken anywhere else except Harare Central Police Station?

Timba: I was taken to Harare Central Police Station and then whisked to Matapi Police Station.

Guma: And did they tell you why they had arrested you and what the charges were?

Timba: No they never did that. All they did was just to take my profile, just taking my personal details and then that’s all. And then took me to Matapi Police Station and then they instructed the duty officer that I was not supposed to communicate with anyone, neither was supposed to receive any visitors.

Guma: Okay and then what happened from then on?

Timba: The following morning they came and picked me up around 9.30 and they took me to St Mary’s Police Station and we went through exactly the same routine with the duty officer being told that I should not communicate with anyone and/or receive any visitors.

Guma: At what time or at what point did you get access to your lawyers?

Timba: I got access to my lawyers around 20 to 11, that is when they came to pick me up around 10 ‘o clock from St Mary’s Police Station (inaudible) my lawyer had the previous night filed an urgent court application demanding that the police release me, no produce me in court at 11 ‘o clock on Sunday. So it is that time I was only able to see my lawyer, that was about 20 minutes before I appeared before the high court.

Guma: Now when you did appear before the High Court, this was on Sunday, did they at any point lay out what they were charging you with?

Timba: No, in fact just before we went to the High Court, they then produced a piece of paper which they said they were charging me under Section 33 of the Criminal Code for insulting the president and/or undermining his authority by having called him a liar.

Guma: Okay so we all know the judge, Justice Joseph Musakwa ordered your release but despite the order from the judge for you to be freed there was to be some courtroom drama for over an hour we are told as police officers and your lawyers reportedly clashed over attempts to take you back to the police station. Talk us through that, what was happening?

Timba: The police were saying that they needed to take me back to the police station to go and complete what they called release procedures but my lawyers argument was that there was no need for any release procedure since the high court order had said to release me immediately and immediately meant that particular time. Okay? In any event, when we eventually went to the police station, there were no release procedures to be completed. All they needed to do was to complete their docket by making me sign a Warned and Cautioned statement to respond to the outrageous charge of insulting the President.

Guma: We were told even during that period of the standoff, police reinforcements had to be called in and it was only that juncture that you then went to the station.

Timba: No, that’s not the reason why we went to the station. We went to the station after my lawyer and I had made a decision. Look whatever these guys intentions might be I think at this point so we just went to the police station to face whatever circumstance was actually awaiting me.

Guma: Okay. Now soon after your release Mr Timba, you wrote on your Facebook wall ‘I am out and resting at home after two and a half days without food and water. I didn’t realise the power of the mind over matter. Thanks to all of you for your prayers and support.’ Interesting thing there – they denied you food during this whole time?

Timba: The last food that I’d had was in the plane, the plane from Barcelona, ironically from a Rule of Law Summit in Barcelona organised by the World Justice Forum and one of the key things that the Prime Minister said at that Summit was that the rule of law in Zimbabwe was in intensive care and it was proved as soon as we landed, that indeed it was in intensive care.

So (inaudible) until I got to the police station and they picked me up from St Mary’s (inaudible) some food but what I meant by that the power of the mind over the body was the fact that when I realised that food was not going to be forthcoming, I switched off, therefore I never felt hungry.

Guma: You also go on to say ‘Know that my resolve to fight for democratic change has been strengthened. When you see Jonathan Moyo tell him I’ll see him in Luanda for Round Two at the next SADC Summit in August and he will become second best again.’ Special mention of Jonathan Moyo there, what do you think is his role in this whole thing?

Timba: Jonathan Moyo ran a media campaign a week before I was arrested, both in the print state media and in print in the public media and (inaudible) where he was advocating for my arrest (inaudible) Attorney General to institute proceedings against me.

Guma: The background to all of this is that you allegedly accused Mugabe of lying about the outcome of the SADC Summit in South Africa. Can you clarify this issue and what your exact remarks were?

Timba: My exact remarks which are contained in my opinion piece that I wrote for both, for the Standard are to the effect that the distortions that are coming out of the public media and some from ZANU PF have reached dishonest proportions bordering on insanity. That’s what I said.

Guma: Okay. Even for example if you had used the word ‘Mugabe lied’, would that still be a crime under Zimbabwean law?

Timba: According to my lawyers, it is not an offence.

Guma: We have a question from South Africa, Martin Mpeketula he says, Minister as MDC is there a policy right now being worked out in regard to the whole correctional institute in Zimbabwe, especially on rehabilitation of all prisons since from your experiences and others they are inhumane and dangerous to inhabit?

Timba: Sorry what is the question?

Guma: Well he’s asking, from your experiences as MDC people who have been incarcerated and you’ve seen conditions in the prisons, in remand prisons, are there any policies that you are working on in regard to trying to…

Timba: Yes indeed. We have pushed through the Council of Ministers a programme of rehabilitation of all these facilities which has to be done under the Ministry of Justice. As it stands now, the minister of Justice has set up a technical committee of officials, an inter-party technical committee because it is a cross party issue which affects other ministries, to work on the rehabilitation programme.

Guma: The last time we addressed this issue I think we had posed it to the co-Home Affairs minister Theresa Makone and the answer was that there was no money to be able to rehabilitate so is that something obviously that you’ll be coming up against?

Timba: Well look people need first of all to establish what needs to be done and then people know the cost that is involved and then a bid, a normal bid to the Treasury is then done. It is only after that that we are able to determine whether the resources to do it are there or not. But we have to determine the cost first. So this technical committee that I indicated to you is working on the programme and the cost will be determined from what is involved.

Guma: From Mount Pleasant, that’s your constituency obviously, Roger says MDC MPs among others, keep finding themselves being arrested under laws that have no place in a democratic society e.g. insulting or undermining the authority of the president, notifying or obtaining permission from police before holding a meeting, etcetera, etcetera. Now he cites Article 17 of the GPA which talks about the parties agreeing to a legislative agenda, so his question is – why after nearly two and a half years in government and in parliament, have the MDC not introduced any Bills to amend or repeal any of these laws? “They and others like WOZA would not be subject to this sort of harassment from the police if the laws did not exist.”

Timba: I agree with Roger. Let me start by saying that we have actually tabled a Private Members Bill on POSA, to clean up POSA. There’s another plan to come up with another Private Members Bill to look at the Criminal Code, in particular some of the provisions that I’ve been arrested under but there are others like the ones which affect media freedom such as the publication of falsehoods etcetera, etcetera under the Criminal Code.

We did make an effort through the general amendment laws but the minister who is responsible for that is the Minister of Justice and I made, I specifically and personally made submissions to him in cabinet about these provisions and there were actually four clauses about the Criminal Code including this one and he rejected that and because of the way in which we work, he is the minister in charge of that Act so he can reject any submissions.

So the next thing that is going to happen now is that there will be a Private Members Bill to deal with that. Then the other aspect that I also want Roger to understand is that this is not an MDC government. MDC is in government but it is not an MDC government. Therefore processes and procedures to do certain things are hampered by the partners that we have in government. We are still in the trenches; the only difference is that the trenches are now executive trenches.

Guma: There is a general argument made by some critics that a lot of effort was put into electing MDC members of parliament and the party got a majority in parliament but you have not been using that majority to your advantage, choosing instead to be cautious in your dealings with ZANU PF. Would you accept that criticism?

Timba: Well unless somebody were to specify in what way I would not be able to respond other than just to accept and take it as a criticism but without being specific it would be very difficult for me to respond.

Guma: Well there’s a general feeling and some of our listeners have made this observation that, for example the controversial Chinese loan deal, a lot of people felt the MDC could have, I mean they said the right things in parliament in terms of criticising the skewed priorities but they did not block the deal from going through although they have the majority in parliament. So that is an example of the MDC probably not using its majority.

Timba: That is a valid criticism; I’m totally against that loan agreement myself.

Guma: The army generals have been relentless in their attacks on Tsvangirai; you were arrested, eventually freed; Energy Minister Elton Mangoma faced the same fate several months ago and now we have nearly 25 party activists in custody over the death of a policeman in Glen View. Just your thoughts Mr Timba, what do you think is the ZANU PF strategy here?

Timba: ZANU PF has got three strategies – violence, intimidation and harassment. That’s all they have left to them and that’s all they’ve had for the past 30 years and that’s all they will continue to do. As fighters for democracy, we have made a deliberate choice, okay? Although it is a choice which one might say represents an oxymoron where we have decided to fight a dictatorship using democratic means, which means fighting a ruthless dictatorship using peaceful means. So this is a choice that we have made and we will continue to fight to ensure that we can go to a process where Zimbabwe can be reborn.

Guma: One of your strategies and this is my final question, one of your strategies has obviously involved relying on the SADC regional grouping for a solution and you are also obviously looking forward to the Summit in Luanda. Do you think this route will bear fruit because when Thabo Mbeki was leading the mediation effort people didn’t have a lot of confidence in it, there seems to have been a gradual shift after the Livingstone Summit and everyone is hoping something will come out of it? Do you think this is going to be the ultimate solution?

Timba: I believe that SADC leaders have now made a decision that they don’t want this Zimbabwe crisis to continue to be on their agenda. It is affecting them. South Africa for instance, the issue of Zimbabwe is no longer a foreign policy issue; it is now a domestic issue for them. It is an issue that is raised in their parliament; it is an issue that is raised in their national executive of their ruling party.

It is an issue that is raised in the streets of South Africa. We have got millions of our compatriots who are living in South Africa; we have got issues of xenophobia now taking place where people are complaining that our jobs are being taken etcetera. So South Africa has got to a resolve to ensure that the Zimbabwe case is resolved for themselves.

Guma: Well Zimbabwe that was the Minister of State in Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai’s office, Mr Jameson Timba. He was on Sunday (last) freed by a special session of the high court following his controversial arrest on Friday for allegedly calling Robert Mugabe a liar. Mr Timba, thank you so much for joining us on this edition of Question Time.

Timba: Thank you.

To listen to the programme:
http://swradioafrica.streamuk.com/swradioafrica_archive/qt290611.wma

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