Friendly fire is good for democracy: Chamisa

Ahead of a SADC summit expected to tackle the crisis in Zimbabwe SW Radio Africa journalist Lance Guma spoke to MDC spokesman, Nelson Chamisa, about what they hoped to get from the meeting in Namibia. Chamisa also responds to criticism that some in the MDC have become ‘more focused on politics as a ‘profession’ or a ‘station with perks’ rather than focusing on good governance and transforming the country’s policies. With traditional allies in the ZCTU having a dig at the MDC, Chamisa told the programme ‘friendly fire is good for democracy.’ 

Interview broadcast 12 August 2010 

Lance Guma: The Southern African Development Community (SADC) Summit will be held in Windhoek, Namibia on August the 16^th. The MDC, led by founding president and current Zimbabwean Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai want Mugabe and his party ZANU PF censored for failing to honour and implement outstanding issues in the Global Political Agreement signed by all parties in September 2008. This week, I’m joined by MDC spokesman Nelson Chamisa. Mr Chamisa, thank you for joining us on the programme. 

Nelson Chamisa: Thank you. 

Guma: My first question is what is the MDC hoping to get from this summit? 

Chamisa: Well, thank you very much for your time. We are expecting to get two major developments. The first one is the issue of the resolution of outstanding issues as we have articulated and in fact these outstanding issues are in three parts. The first part is the outstanding issues arising out of the non-implementation of things that have been agreed upon. 

So there’s the agreement in principle but there’s no implementation of those things that have been agreed upon and the second bit has to do with the deadlock issues. Issues that are still are not agreed at all, the Attorney General, the resident governors, issues to do with Roy Bennett and other like issues. 

The third one are issues that are emerging as toxic issues or unilateral action by ZANU PF, issues that have been done against the spirit and letter of the Global Political Agreement, issues to do with the unilateral appointment of judges, ambassadors, jingles non-adherence with issues in the Global Political Agreement. 

So these are the three major items of the first set of issues, that is the outstanding issues. The second major aspect we want also to be dealt with is the road map for a free and fair election. In this case we would want to have some kind of a framework, a trajectory that would define the various signposts that will lead us to a free and fair election. 

So that we eliminate guesswork, we eliminate any possibilities of wailing or ambushing by anyone of the actors and also ensure that there are pre- and post-election stability and peace in the country. Of course electoral reforms also come into action, issues of the new constitution also come into action, issues of the mechanisms that are supposed to be put into place, particularly the issue of the SADC monitoring organ are issues that we would want to see in place so that there is a smooth passage of those reforms institutionally and also administratively that are supposed to be put in place to prepare and pave the way for a free and fair election. 

So I would say in the whole, these are the two major aspects we would want to see dealt with, articulated and of course adequately covered. 

Guma: Now Mugabe’s spokesman George Charamba is insisting the SADC Summit will simply give the platform to chief facilitator Jacob Zuma to give an update to the Troika on peace and security which will then brief the Summit as a point of information and not of discussion. What’s your reaction to this? 

Chamisa: Well that is Mr Charamba’s wish but SADC is not about Mr Charamba’s wishes or preferences. It is about what was agreed upon and what is factual is the fact that we are going to be having a report submitted to the Troika and of course the Troika will make a report to the full Summit. 

We are expecting that within the context of that discussion, it’s not just going to be an open-ended discussion, it will have conclusive and tangible practical actions that are supposed to be put in place to try and deal with the issues otherwise if they ignore full attention given to the issue of Zimbabwe, we are likely to see what was a storm possibly sliding or collapsing into a full regional hurricane or tsunami as it were. 

Guma: Those who have been following the history of these summits will know they are nothing more than talking workshops that produce weak resolutions. Are you worried about this prospect?

Chamisa: Well I must say that yes we do acknowledge that people would want to criticise SADC, people would want to say yes, things have been done but it’s not enough and of course SADC has not lived up to the expectations of many people.

Those are sentiments that are genuine and that are justified but we must also acknowledge the fact that it is the nature of the character and design of these institutions that at times they are not adequately appraised of positions to deal with issues in a just and fair manner but I must say that the fact that we have a Global Political Agreement, it is a creature born out of gestation processes of the same body so it’s not as if they’ve not done anything.

They also try to sort of bring the two, hitherto two warring parties together, the erstwhile competitors to come together, form a coalition government, deliver certain things and as far as MDC, we have listened to people who have come in to say MDC seems to have lost focus, MDC have lost their teeth or lost their metal. Far from it – we agreed at our Congress, way, way, way, way, way back, when we did our Congress in 2007 that we are going to have a road map to a new Zimbabwe.

That road map would entail first what we call the final push to force ZANU PF to come to the negotiating table for the purposes of dialogue, after that we agree that we are going to form an inclusive government or a government of national unity, after that government of national unity we said we are then going to deal with national healing, transitional justice, issues of humanitarian assistance, preparing for a free and fair election, institutional reform – that we are doing and that we have done.

Part of it, writing of a new constitution, then go to an election which we would say free and fair, then have a new government that would be in a new Zimbabwe. So in terms of the process, yes, we would say SADC has not done much but I think they have tried and it fits very well and actually supports our own road map to a new Zimbabwe as we defined it in our Congress, so we are quite on course.

Guma: Now one of the editors at the Zimbabwe Standard Nevanji Madanhire wrote an article criticising the MDC and to quote your own words – he basically accused you of minoring on majors and majoring on minors – and he says the issues that you are raising to do with Gono, Tomana and Bennett are very minor issues and you should be focussing on the issue of transition of power, because he is saying even if you were to win the next elections, it depends on whether the generals will allow a transition of power so he says you should be pushing for such issues to be dealt with by SADC rather than focussing on issues like Gono and Tomana. Would you want to respond to that?

Chamisa: No, no, no, we do appreciate the concerns from a lot of commentators but what is fact is that we have a Global Political Agreement with certain things we agreed upon and as far as we are concerned to ourselves, the implementation of the Global Political Agreement is the genesis of the implementation of a road map to a free and fair election.

Without the full implementation of the GPA we are not going to realise certain fundamental reforms institutionally and even reforms that may actually have to come in and deal with certain key actors in state institutions – the Attorney General being one of them, the Reserve Bank being one of them and of course, making sure that we also have certain individual actors who sort of embody that inclusive character is so important so we do hear what the other people are saying but we are quite cognisant of what has to be done and we have our eyes on the ball.

These things about power transfer – tell me of one team that has discussed strategies and tactics in the ears of the opponents and won – tell me one team. We are not going to be that stupid that we will be laying our cards on the table when in fact laying our cards on the table is a mark of weakness and a mark of foolishness.

We will not do that but it doesn’t mean that we are resting. Yes, a lot of those concerns that are being raised we do acknowledge them but we can’t put them in editorial or in newspapers, it doesn’t work that way. We are going to win. Of course we do appreciate criticism but at times criticism is on the basis of lack of information.

Guma: A recent article in the Zimbabwean newspaper quotes critics who believe the new players in government and by that they meant from the MDC have become more focussed on politics as a profession or a station with perks rather than focussing on objectives such as good governance and a transformation of the country’s policies. Is that a fair assessment?

Chamisa: Again, look, when you are a player, there’s always going to be terrace voices, there’s always going to be terrace shouts some of which are justified, some of which are not and in this case, I think as players in the inclusive government, as the MDC, we have brought about positive difference. We have brought about the framework and foundation for real change. We have actually laid a framework for optimism and hope in a new Zimbabwe.

What we’ve done, just making sure that we try and stabilise the economy is a fundamental thing that goes back to our policy mix and policy matrix. Making sure that we also liberalise the political space, the political meetings, civic organisations continue to have their meetings is something that we’ve also created.

Making sure that we create institutional mechanism through the envisaged electoral reforms through the putting in place of commissions is also making sure that permanently we populate our country with institutions that will be very strong to deal with individual excesses and individual greed. In terms of clean hands, I would argue that of all our ministers, of all our councillors, we have actually had zero tolerance on corruption.

We have not had our ministers being involved in some of those vices. Our ministers have actually been shining examples of symbols of excellence. They’ve been very, very principled, they’ve actually contributed to fundamental issues of transformation. Of course it is a process, transformation is never an event. Yes, we do appreciate the anxiety, we do appreciate the kind of restlessness among the people but we are getting there, slow but sure.

The direction is good, the speed might not be what the people expect but we are facing the correct direction and the new Zimbabwe we would want to see is literally taking form and shape and that will be realised very soon. So yes, we do appreciate criticism but at times, criticism like I said is actually resting on a thin foundation of lack of information and of course it is not the fault of those critics. It is the design and nature of our politics that we cannot put all the cards particularly the cards of strategy on the table.

Guma: One other criticism that has been put your way is the inability to keep allies. Let me quote the Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Union Secretary General Wellington Chibebe who recently said and I quote “When they got into government, they were falling over each other to get cars and perks, they fitted well into existing conditions of service, power game and culture of chiefdom.” Now the ZCTU has over the years been a strong ally of the MDC, is it a worry for you when you hear former allies talking like this?

Chamisa: Oh friendly fire is good for democracy. When you are friends it doesn’t mean that it has to be hunky-dory all the time. You occasionally have these blind side knocks, but that is the nature of democracy, that is the nature of friendship, that is the nature of our solidarity and our relationship with our colleagues in the ZCTU.

It is not a weakness that a brother will tell you where they are not comfortable, it’s actually a sign of strength, it’s actually a sign of comradeship, it’s camaraderie at play, so we do appreciate those concerns but we have since re-energised our base, reconnected with a lot of our colleagues who would have felt otherwise because it’s also a time not just a political problem but a communication problem.

Those issues in terms of objectives, strategy and tactics we have also managed to have that meeting of the mind with our colleagues in the NCA, our colleagues in the student movement, our colleagues in the workers’ movement and I must say that we are all facing the same direction and we are also singing from the same hymn book if not the same hymn sheet.

Guma: A recent Herald newspaper report alleges the MDC has formed a technical management committee to assess ZANU PF’s commitment to the inclusive government and decide whether to pull out or not. Is this true?

Chamisa: Look, like I say, we are not going to be, transparency does not mean being nakedness. We are not going to go on top of the mountain and undress so that we claim that we are some act of bravery. We have to preserve certain things for our strategies and tactics which have to be assessed at the appropriate time as to whether or not we are true to our values and goals.

We have our internal mechanisms, our internal systems that have to provide checks and balances, that have to provide a sounding board for the decisions we take, for the actions we take, for the commission we make, so all those issues are issues that we may not be quite comfortable to discuss with. Of course as ZANU PF’s mouthpieces would want to sort of provoke us to say a lot about the kind of craft competence and craft literacy we have within our rank and file.

We will not be tempted to betray ourselves. In fact we know that whatever we are doing in terms of proving that we are a party of excellence, in terms of proving that we are the only vehicle in town available to deliver real change, we are unparalleled, we don’t have competition in that regard and that is what we know.

Yes we make mistakes, yes we have certain omissions but we were not born politicians, we are not born in government. We were born to do certain things, fail and acknowledge where we fail. Let me straight away acknowledge where we make mistakes but at the end of the day, we are trying to do what is good for our country. We are trying to make sure that we do the best thing for our country.

Of course people have said ah the MDC people are cry-babies, they complain to SADC. No – it’s not as if we are just complaining, we have simply said we are not going to choose the path of destruction, the path of violence to resolve our conflict. We would want to deal with issues of rapprochement, issues of dialogue, issues of engagement, issues of respecting certain institutions that are African so that we are able to move forward. Not because of fear, not because of  weakness but because we love our country more.

Guma: My final question for you Mr Chamisa – how would you describe the MDC’s commitment to the GPA given ZANU PF’s continued refusal to honour its obligations and in fact deliberately adding more violations that only serve to undermine the MDC in the eyes of the people?

Chamisa: Yes we are committed to the GPA. This is why under very extraordinary circumstances, very extraordinary developments and temptations, we have continued to pick ourselves in the trenches, the reasons that we would want to deliver real change for the people of Zimbabwe.

And I must also hasten to say that look, at the end of the day, whatever we do or don’t do, history will judge us and I must say that whatever we have done as MDC, we have done the correct thing for our country and the people will obviously realise that whatever we have done is to try and make sure that we create the platform and state for reconstruction, create a platform and state for democratisation, we create a platform and state for the entrenchment of institutions that are going to guarantee people’s freedoms, people’s prosperity and people’s stability in terms of their everyday life endeavours.

So those are the issues that are taking place. As to the GPA – our commitment and our attitude to the GPA is going to be defined by the character and attitude of the other player. It doesn’t make any sense for us to be committed to a marriage when we don’t have a partner. You can shout on top of your mountain but if the partner is not willing to also play ball it becomes a problem.

It takes two to tango – for that reason it is not just the commitment of the MDC, it is also the commitment from the other side, from ZANU PF that will make a difference. To the extent that we are committed, we are committed. To the extent that we are not committed we obviously have many other options that we may actually pursue to try and realise democratic change and real change in Zimbabwe.

Guma: That was the MDC spokesman Nelson Chamisa joining us on the programme this week. Mr Chamisa, thank you so much for your time.

Chamisa: Thank you my brother.