Ex-Finance Minister Simba Makoni denounces ‘sapatina’ politics, says ‘we are our own liberators’

Reader, I am sure you are cognizant of the fact that for the past one year or so, a political culture of patronage which some now colloquially call “Sapatina-Sapatina” politics, viz, buying people of influence with cars and money in return for political support has been on the increase in Zimbabwe.

Prior, most politicians from the ruling party ZANU PF have always been known for buying political support but now it has been more pronounced because it is now being done overtly, the mask has been removed.

We need to understand the nature of this overt patronage, its genesis and its implications on the nation of Zimbabwe.

In an attempt to unpack it, I sat down with former Finance Minister of Zimbabwe Dr Simba Makoni, a former member of ZANU PF, for an exclusive interview in which he shared his views. Young readers, my agemates, might be asking who Simba Makoni is.

Born in 1950 in Makoni District, Manicaland, Makoni is an alumni of the University of Rhodesia (now University of Zimbabwe) where he was expelled for political activism at the instigation of the Rhodesian government of Ian Smith in the 1970s.

Makoni then went to Britain to complete his degree in chemistry. He obtained his masters’ and PhD degrees in Britain and whilst studying there during the days of the liberation struggle, Makoni was one of ZANU’s young representatives.

After independence in 1980, Makoni was appointed Deputy Minister of Agriculture in then Prime Minister Robert Mugabe’s first cabinet. After a short time, he was promoted to Minister of Industry.

His new role was short-lived because he was then appointed Executive Secretary of SADC in the early years of independence and he served in that role until 1994 when he returned to Zimbabwe.

Upon returning to Zimbabwe, he ventured into the corporate private sector. He was later on appointed as Finance Minister in the early 2000s by the then President of Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe.

Barely two years after his appointment, he resigned from cabinet after having disagreements with Mugabe and his government on how to effectively run the economy.

Makoni left ZANU PF in 2008 and launched his presidential bid as the candidate of Mavambo-Kusile-Dawn. Makoni was the first presidential candidate and remains the only one to ever garner 8% of the vote outside the two main candidates.

Morgan Tsvangirai was pronounced the winner with 47% of the vote and Robert Mugabe got 42% but he unleashed unspeakable, horrendous violence on opposition supporters and remained at the helm of power.

Simba Makoni is a respected technocrat and some analysts have described him as “Zimbabwe’s best president that it never had”. He is currently a commercial tobacco farmer based in Headlands, Manicaland.

Gonese: I am talking to Dr. Simba Makoni, former Minister of Finance of Zimbabwe. Thank you very much for your time, Dr. Makoni.

Makoni: Pleasure.

1. The first question, Dr. Makoni, is you were a member of ZANU during the liberation struggle. When you look at the current ZANU PF and compare it with the ZANU of 1963 to 1980, what would you say has fundamentally changed? 

Makoni: What has changed is the nature of the struggle. The struggle that we waged for independence was very simple and clear.

It was a struggle for majority rule. It was a struggle against a white minority. And so, defining the struggle was easy. And who you would call the opponent, some would say the enemy, was very simple.

White minority rule, oppression, and discrimination. The struggle we are waging now is very complex. I remember the late President Samora Machel(Mozambique) saying, the struggle for independence is easy. The struggle for economic development is more difficult.

He summarized it aptly. Because you could touch a white minority regime person, you could point to a place of racial discrimination. It’s not easy to do that now because we are fighting poverty, we are fighting hunger, we’re still fighting oppression, even though it is oppression by some among us.

But I would still say it’s a minority that’s oppressing the majority. So, from that point of view, the nature of the struggle has changed principally because it is more diffuse, it is more complex, it is more complicated.

The other aspect of change in the struggle we’re waging is the characters in the struggle, especially the characters leading the struggle. The African nationalists of the 50s and 60s were very honest, straightforward, genuine people.

Ndabaningi Sithole, even Robert Mugabe in his earlier days, there was Joshua Nkomo, the Takawiras, they were very honest people who lived their convictions. The characters leading us now are largely crooks, very corrupt, very wicked, very cruel.

And so that’s another major difference in the context of the struggle of the 60s and 50s and the struggle of nowadays

2. At what point did you experience your Damascus moment, the realization that the liberation movement you belonged to, had become a shadow of its former self?

Makoni: Well, there was no Damascus moment. This was not a sudden revelation.

This was a continuum. It was a process of disenchantment. But it began to manifest itself, this change in the nature and character of our leadership especially, from about 1990-92. I can recall that in 1992, there was discussion on the need for change in leadership at a conference of ZANU-PF.

I think it was in Filabusi. So, over the years, we all saw the change that was taking place both in the organization and individuals in the organization. And it was also from that time that some of us realized the need for change.

So, there was not a sudden revelation that this is no longer my home, I no longer belong here. It was a build-up to a point of rupture.

3. Dr. Makoni, you served as finance minister in President Robert Mugabe’s government in the early 2000s. Yet you resigned after less than two years. What circumstances or principles prompted you to take that decision?

Makoni: I think to understand my resignation requires a little bit of a background. You may be aware that I was not in active politics in 2000. I was in business. President Mugabe asked me to rejoin the government, specifically as Minister of Finance.

We had a discussion, prior to my accepting that invitation, of what expectations he had, what expectations I also had of that office, and what we would aim to achieve by my being in that office. When we agreed on those matters, I accepted to be Minister of Finance.

But no sooner had I settled in the chair did we start to deviate from the agreement that we had reached with President Mugabe about what he wanted his Minister of Finance to do and what I had accepted to do.

The headline said we disagreed over devaluation, we disagreed over the exchange rate. It was part of the picture, but it was not the only picture.

It was failure to agree on the direction that the country should take, not only that the fiscus and the management of the national resources would take, but it was the direction of the country.

When he invited me to be Minister of Finance, I shared an expectation, a wish, a vision for the direction that the country should take, which was away from the direction that the country was on and it pursued even after I left the government and, later on, the party as well.

So, in simple terms, we did not converge on the path of development that the country should take. You may recall at one point, President Mugabe said, I was an enemy of the state. He didn’t name me. He said, anyone advocating for devaluation is an enemy of the state.

And I was the key proponent of a flexible exchange rate. And a flexible exchange rate at that time implied an exchange rate adjustment. So, the answer is it wasn’t one thing. It was the broad direction that the country was to take on which we disagreed and I determined that I was not going to be able to function effectively in an office where there constraints to achieving our objectives.

4. In the history of Zimbabwe, only you and Dr. Nkosana Moyo have, out of their own volition, resigned from cabinet positions. I don’t mean that you should answer for Dr. Nkosana Moyo, but you can answer for yourself. Why did you choose to take such a bold step at a time when many of your colleagues were unwilling to do so, likely out of fear of losing political privileges and benefits?

Makoni: Well, firstly, I think let’s place the sequence. Nkosana Moyo resigned first. I resigned some months after him. So, the sequence is Dr. Nkosana Moyo and Simba Makoni resigned.

I did not enjoy or acquire political privileges or benefits of political office. If it doesn’t sound rude or presumptuous, I would say when I agreed to rejoin the government in 2000, leaving a chief executive position in business, I lost a number of privileges and benefits.

Because what I was enjoying as a chief executive in an organization of commerce was much higher than what I then went to accept as a minister of government.

But I accepted to do that because I was then and still am committed to serving my country and making my contribution.

I don’t know that those who didn’t resign did it for the reasons you gave, but I resigned because I was not constrained by the same reasons that you say kept the other colleagues in office at that time, maybe even now.

I follow my convictions. I pursue ambitions of benefit to more than just myself, my family, my relatives, my country. And if a situation I’m placed in does not allow me or enable me to contribute to the betterment of the lives of my family, my country, then I don’t stay there.

And that’s the principal reason I resigned because I wasn’t seeing myself contributing to the betterment of the lives of the people of Zimbabwe.

5. Some people, Dr. Makoni, believe you once attempted to reform Zanu PF from within. And there are rumors that you intended to challenge President Robert Mugabe for the party presidency at the 2006 Zanu PF Congress in Goromonzi. Did you attempt to change the party from within? If so, why do you think those efforts were unsuccessful?

Makoni: I think it is important not to personalize processes and institutions. Yes, I was one of many members of ZANU-PF, including others at the leadership level.

The time you’re talking about in 2006, I was a member of the Central Committee and a member of the Politburo of ZANU PF.

Yes, I can confirm that there were many in the leadership as well as in the general membership who believed that the party was ripe for change in leadership and that change in the top leadership, which was the office Robert Mugabe was occupying, was long overdue.

So, in that manner, I can confirm, yes, I was working with others to effect change from within.

6. In 2008, Dr. Makoni, you contested against ZANU PF and Robert Mugabe as the presidential candidate of the Mavambo Kusile Dawn movement and secured 8% of the vote. Morgan Tsvangirai led with 47% of the vote, while Robert Mugabe followed with 42%, leading to widespread violence against opposition supporters and a brutal runoff election.

There is an accusation that you were planted by ZANU PF to divide the opposition vote. Some critics argue that your candidacy weakened Zimbabweans at their most critical moment. How do you respond to that criticism and how should  Zimbabweans interpret your decision?

Makoni: Firstly, let’s just correct the facts. There were four presidential candidates in 2008. There was one Toungana, one Robert Mugabe, one Morgan Tsvangirai, and one Simba Makoni. I did not contest against Robert Mugabe, nor against Morgan Tsvangirai, nor against Toungana.

I contested for the people of Zimbabwe. I am driven by positives. So, it wasn’t against somebody. It wasn’t even against Mugabe, it was for the people of Zimbabwe.

Was I planted by ZANU-PF? I don’t know why I would be planted by ZANU-PF because I was leaving ZANU-PF in order to offer the people of Zimbabwe an alternative leadership that was different from that of ZANU-PF.

The analysis that says I was planted in order to divide the opposition vote, in theory, stands but in reality, I can tell you, I wasn’t planted by ZANU-PF. I came out having tried to lead ZANU-PF to change.

And when I realized that process was not succeeding, I opted for a process of change outside ZANU-PF. I remain rooted in that process as we speak today. So, I wasn’t planted, not by ZANU PF, not by anybody else for that matter.

If I was planted at all, I was planted by the people of Zimbabwe.

7. Maybe to add one there, some would say probably you were supposed to join the MDC so that you would form a formidable challenge against the oppressor but you opted to stand separately.

Makoni: They would ask why you didn’t join the main opposition movement because by not joining, it led to division of the opposition vote and probably the 8% that you got, plus what Morgan Tsvangirai got, could have produced a clear winner and no run-off would have happened and ZANU PF would be out of power right now?

I think we have to look at this in terms of what was the objective of standing for president of Zimbabwe. The objective was to offer a different leadership, to offer a leadership that would take the people of Zimbabwe to a better place.

Did the MDC and Morgan Tsvangirai offer that? I did not believe so. I do not believe so now.

However, I must place it on record that we made efforts to work together with the MDC and those efforts, did not succeed, in the same way that we made efforts to change ZANU PF from within so that we could lead the people of Zimbabwe to a different place.

That effort was also made in the short time between the February 5th when I announced my candidacy, but long before February 5th(2008) , between the time I decided, at the end of the 2007 Annual Conference of ZANU PF, the congress, that I wasn’t comfortable to continue in this house.

We approached the MDC for a partnership bound by certain principles, and certain values and certain objectives for the people and the country.

When we couldn’t agree on that, I then decided, with the colleagues I was working with, that we would offer the people of Zimbabwe the vision that would become the campaign platform for Mavambo-Kusile-Dawn.

8. Today, Dr. Makoni, ZANU PF figures such as Kudakwashe Tagwirei, Wicknell Chivayo, and others have pioneered what many describe colloquially as the politics of Sapatin-Sapatina,viz, buying political loyalty through gifts such as cars, food parcels like chicken slice, and the creation of controversial groups like Top Soup for ED. 

Recently, a photo surfaced showing a man tying Tagwirei’s shoelaces in exchange for such favors. What are your thoughts on this emerging political culture? And do you think it started now?

Makoni: You know, I am pained by what is happening in the name of ZANU-PF because this organization that they call ZANU-PF is so far removed from the original ZANU, or even ZANU-PF if we take ZANU and ZAPU of 1963.

It’s so far removed from what those organizations stood for then, that it’s a misnomer that they call themselves ZANU PF. They are not ZANU. They are not the successors of the ethos of ZANU and ZAPU of 1963.

I was a young boy in 1963, but I could understand. I educated myself on the nationalist movement sufficiently to be able to make this statement I’m making. These people who are using the name of ZANU-PF are cheating.

They are stealing the heart and the soul of the nationalist movement. I don’t know whether Tagwirei and Chivayo know what the precursors to this ZANU-PF, this mercenary ZANU-PF, were and what their aspirations were, the founders of the nationalist movement and the genuine leaders of the nationalist movement.

They would be turning in their graves if they knew this is what their organizations have become. I have two sentiments about the zviganandas and the Sapatina Sapatina. The first sentiment is what that reflects of those people who call themselves leaders.

To bring your people to the level where one is tying another man’s shoelaces, so debasing, so dehumanizing, is in itself a feeling that they shouldn’t be comfortable with.

I don’t think Emmerson Mnangagwa should be comfortable seeing the people of Zimbabwe dehumanized to the extent of tying another man’s shoes and claim he is the leader of such a people.

So, it reflects on the character of those who call themselves our leaders. But it also is a sign of the extent of hardship that our people are having to endure for someone to accept, to be debased, to be dehumanized, to be brought down to a level of having to tie another man’s shoelaces shows the extent of desperation and destitution.

It hurts me. It pains me because the vision, the ambition, the yearning of the liberation movement was not to debase and dehumanize. It was to enrich, enrich materially and enrich morally, psychologically and intellectually.

That is not where we are. We are not an intellectually, morally and psychologically enriched people.

We are impoverished, not just impoverished for lack of food, lack of clothing, lack of medicines, lack of books but impoverished in our minds, in our souls and in our hearts. It’s painful.

9. Considering that this is a man (Tagwirei) who is rumored to be harboring presidential ambitions. What  do you think, will be the future of this country?

Makoni: It will be a future of poverty, more material poverty, more psychological , more intellectual , more emotional poverty. We will sink deeper than we are at the moment.

You know one thing that saddens me is the fact that leadership is being measured , is assessed in terms of materials.

So, Tagwirei mounts a podium and says to the war veterans in Harare province, you can research how many war veterans are in Harare province, ‘we are giving you fifty thousand dollars.’ What does fifty thousand dollars do for the thousands of war veterans in Harare province?

So, the measurement of life in terms of dollars and cents, in terms of Prados and Hiluxes and Land Cruisers is very shallow. It is debasing, it is demeaning.

So, God forbid that characters like that ever get close to the seat of national leadership because we can only foresee and it can only portend greater suffering for the people.

10. Dr Makoni, still on that subject of Tagwirei, some people will argue that the emergence of Tagwirei and Chivayo, perhaps shows that the ZANU PF of dictators, the ZANU PF of oppressors is probably dying because Tagwirei has no roots in the liberation struggle, some feel that the liberation struggle narrative that is used to weaponize political power by ZANU PF is going to die, Tagwirei is coming with his new slogan called ‘Pamberi ne mari muhomwe(Forward with pockets loaded with money)’.

Some people say probably this signifies a change from what used to happen before and people think this might actually be their moment of salvation. What is your take on that?

Makoni: Well , I think, I want us to recall the earlier discussion we had about the current ZANU PF compared to the original ZANU PF. ZANU PF meaning the nationalist movement, the precussor to the current ZANU PF.

The current ZANU PF is a pale shadow of the original ZANU. In fact, it’s not even a pale shadow, it’s a deviation and therefore Tagwirei and those like him would fit into the current ZANU PF very well, snuggly because that is the nature of the current ZANU PF.

But it is not the reflection of the original ZANU. So, I would say they belong because that is what the leadership of the political movement, if I can broaden it that way, now represents: greedy, avarice, cruelty, heartlessness, no concern for the people. We shout the right slogans but we do exact opposite of those slogans.

But let me put a footnote to this issue of the liberation struggle. The liberation struggle is time-bound, from 1959 to April 1980. We cannot expect those who were born in 1985, in 2002, to be imbued in the spirit of the liberation struggle.

Sometimes I hear people who call themselves our leaders say, ‘You have no struggle history’. How could Clayton Gonese who was born after independence have struggle history?, that particular struggle history(1959 – 1980) for that matter!

You can have a struggle history of now, of 2000 if you were Morgan Tsvangirai, you can have that struggle history. But to say you must have been in the in trenches in Chimoio, in Bagamoyo and Mgagao is total nonsense.

So, I do not expect Tagwirei to have the struggle history from 1959 to 1980 but I would expect him to have struggle history for the development of Zimbabwe, for the reinforcement of the human rights of the people of Zimbabwe.

You cannot reinforce the rights of the people of Zimbabwe when you ask one Zimbabwean to tie your shoelaces up, no! That’s not the struggle history that we would expect from the born-frees.

So, I would be very surprised if Tagwirei subscribes to the values and ethos and the tenets of the liberation struggle of the nationalist movement, he will not qualify.

11. Maybe, to add on there, they are buying people with cars, with money, and whatever that they have that they can use to buy people. In a country of probably 17 million people, how sustainable do you think that is?

Makoni: It is not sustainable because it does not solve the problems of the 17 million Zimbabweans. It probably doesn’t even solve the problems of the membership of the central committee of ZANU PF.

It may solve the problems of the Politiburo of ZANU PF but quite clearly , that’s not how you solve the problems of a nation, by handing out freebies to a few.

It certainly doesn’t represent development. It represents retrogression, it represents going back. That is why, at a time when Mnangagwa and Mthuli Ncube are insulting us by suggesting that we are now middle-income because we spent $9 dollars but at the same time, the people of Budiriro and Kuwadzana are swimming in sewage.

The people of Mabvuku are drinking borehole water instead of tap water. And the people of Binga are not sending their children to school. We have more school dropouts in 2025 than we had in 1976 when we were in struggle for independence.

So, what kind of development is that? What kind of advancement is that? In my book, it is not development, it is retrogression, it is going back, it’s not going forward.

So, people like Tagwirei and other zviganandas and Sapatina-Sapatina don’t represent the future of the people of Zimbabwe.

12. Dr. Makoni, what is your comment on the ruling party’s current attempts to amend the national constitution to allow the president to extend his rule beyond 2030? How can such an attempt be stopped? 

And do you think Zimbabweans are prepared to defend the constitution or they will just capitulate? 

Makoni: This attempt, the so-called 2030 agenda, is a clear signal of what political leadership now represents.

Hold on to power, abuse of power, and perpetuate the hold on power for as long as you can. And why are they doing so? Not in order to serve the people of Zimbabwe, not in order to lead Zimbabwe to a better life and a better place, but to enrich themselves, to secure their safety and security against the ills that they have perpetuated against the people.

That is my reading of why this is being done. It is being done by a handful of people. The irony of it is, the majority of the people who parade the conferences and who sing and dance to the resolution number one do not themselves support it.

I had personal experience of this during the Mugabe period that we talked about earlier, when it was VaMugabe chete chete( Mugabe and Mugabe only).

If there were five of us in discussion, we were saying mudhara ngaachienda( the old man must go) and if we became 10, 12, 15, it was, VaMugabe chete chete( Mugabe and Mugabe only), that’s exactly what’s happening now.

When there are few of them, they will tell you, Mnangagwa has outlived his usefulness. Already, even up to 2028, he’s outlived his usefulness. Not beyond 2028. But when it’s a mob, it’s agenda 2030, agenda 2030.

So, there’s a lot of deception, there’s a lot of lying, not telling the truth that is happening in all the scenes, the drama that is unfolding around Agenda 2030.

Will the people stop it? Yes, the people of Zimbabwe will stop it. At the surface, we appear defeated, we appear despondent, disenchanted, we appear like we have no soul to fight anymore but I tell you, I believe very strongly that the fighting spirit is as strong now as it was in 2000, as it was in 1976, as it was in 1959. And I believe we will defeat this agenda 2030.

13. I think we have not done justice to this top soup for ED. Dr Makoni, I know you are a father.

Makoni: Imagine your daughter having to go and be part of those who are paraded for these old madalas( old men) to choose for purposes of prostitution so that they give these young girls money.

Probably they will spread diseases to them, STDs. What is your comment particularly on that aspect of top soup for ED?

I would not like to limit the discussion to the top soup for ED. Let us talk about the 4ED movements.

The first question that arises is, why are they needed? Because Mnangagwa knows he doesn’t have support in ZANU PF.

These are parallel structures, parallel political structures, because Mnangagwa knows that in the real ZANU-PF, even the adulterated ZANU-PF that we talked about earlier on, which is not a reflection of the original nationalist movement, the original ZANU of struggle.

He knows he has no support there. And so, to achieve his objective of holding on to power, he created these parallel structures. That’s where the 4ED movements. When it started, it was for Emmerson Dambudzo.

Then they realized it was too narrow and too churlish. They designated it for economic development. And it’s not for economic development. It’s for Emerson Dambudzo. It’s for his personal benefit. What do I think about it?

It is the same as the young man tying Tagwirei’s shoelaces. It’s the level of desperation that we have put our people into. They have lost self-respect. They have lost self-esteem. I would say they have even lost self-determination.

Self-determination is what makes you stand for yourself, fend for yourself, provide for yourself. So, when pastors for ED parade, they are no longer able to fend for themselves and to provide for themselves on the pulpit.

They must get subvention from Emmerson Mnangagwa. It’s sad that we reduced the whole nation to that state. But I take comfort, Clayton, because the top soup for ED, the pastors for ED, all these for EDs are not representative of the nation of Zimbabwe.

They are a menisque proportion of the 17, 14 million people of Zimbabwe. They don’t represent the majority of us. So, from that point of view, I take comfort in knowing that Zimbabwe has not sold out, Zimbabwe has not been bought by Tagwirei, by Chivayo, by the other zviganandas, including Mnangagwa himself.

They have not succeeded in buying all of us. They have succeeded in cowing us down, intimidating us, they rough up us with violence but our soul remains strong for self-determination.

So, these are deviants, these are aberrations, they don’t represent the typical mainstream Zimbabwean.

And from that point of view, I take courage that we will convert them back to being true Zimbabweans who believe in themselves, who believe in their capacity to provide for themselves without being made laughing stock by the Tagwireis and the Chivayos.

14. Dr. Makoni, young people are constantly being told that if they don’t join ZANU PF, they will be poor until they die. You know, when Emmerson Mnangagwa was vice president, there’s a video of him which is available on YouTube.

Makoni: He said, “ZANPF is everything. It controls everything”. He said, “we are the police. We determine who does mining in Zimbabwe. We are the judiciary. We are everything that you think of. If you don’t join Zan PF, you will die poor”.

And he is on record saying in Shona, ‘ukaona wabuda muZANU PF wafanana neshizha rabva pana mai varo, hupenyu hwako hunounyana(If you leave ZANU PF, your life will wrinkle like a leaf that has fallen from its mother tree’. Comment on that?

Well, let me start by saying that I have been out of ZANU PF  now since 2008.

It’s quite warm where I am. It’s comfortable where I am. But more importantly, it’s fulfilling and edifying. It’s enriching to be independent. The second observation I would make is, all that is lies.

Because if it was so good in ZANU PF, all Zimbabweans would be in ZANU PF. Now, if you ask, who is the commissar of ZANU-PF at the moment?, Munyaradzi Machacha, what his membership enrollment is, card-carrying, active members of ZANU-PF.

I would doubt that there are 100,000. Out of 14 million, or 17 million, or even out of the last census returned 12 million, 12 point something million. They are not half a million, they are not a quarter of a million.

So why would it be so if it was so cozy, so good, so comfortable in there? I would say that’s the first answer to that question.

Second answer is, especially to the young people who are being accosted and enticed, look at who of young people in ZANU-PF are not having problems.

Who of them has a job? Who of them is running their own business? Who of them is putting food on their table every day adequately? Except for the few who are aligned to the zviganandas (very corrupt thieves), I would say not even those who are in the youth league leadership are doing what I have suggested they are doing, putting food on their table, managing to be in a job or running their own business, very few.

You can’t count them on more than a score. So, how could it be so good when there are so few there? I would say, the majority of us who are not in there are richer than those who there because we still our independence.

We can still determine what we want, what we need to do in our lives for ourselves without being told by somebody that, “you must do this, you must dance kongonya, you must jump on the back of the truck, you must go and shout a slogan, you must go and beat up your grandmother.”

We have the independence and the freedom to do what is good for ourselves, on a daily basis. Those who are in there don’t have that freedom.

So, we are richer, we may not have the money, we may not have the Hiluxes, we may not have the Prados, but we are richer in heart and in mind.

And those who are rich in heart and mind can determine their fate better than those who aren’t. So, I say to the young people of Zimbabwe don’t be fooled, don’t be deceived, don’t be cheated. It’s colder, it’s harsher, it’s hungrier in ZANU PF than outside of it.

15. Dr. Makoni, some Zimbabweans have become hopeless and they’ve accepted being governed by ZANU PF indefinitely, believing it is their fate to endure poverty until Jesus Christ comes.

Others are joining the ruling party, saying if you can beat them, join them. And the current president is on record saying, ZANU PF icharamba ichingotonga (ZANU PF will rule forever).What is your comment on that?

When Mnangagwa says ZANU PF icharamba ichingotonga (ZANU PF will rule forever), he’s not stating a fact, he’s expressing a wish. And Mnangagwa’s wish is not a fact.

We know that ZANU PF was defeated in elections from 1985, certainly from 2000. So that ichiri kungotonga(it is still ruling) is not the will of the people, it’s the gun.

VaMugabe believed what Mnangagwa is saying there. But VaMugabe havana kuramba vachingotonga (he never ruled until Jesus came) .He shouldn’t forget the fate of Robert Mugabe, there is nothing special about Emmerson Mnangagwa that could stop the same fate befalling him.

But I wish him no ill. I have feelings for human beings and their rights to life. I don’t wish it on him. What I would say to the people of Zimbabwe, though, in response to suggestions like the one you have just quoted, that it is the will of the people ichangotonga kusvika narinhi (that will prevail forever). That the will of the people is not being realized now doesn’t mean the will of the people will forever not be realized.

I want to urge the people of Zimbabwe to look back to where we came from. It was in 1976 when Ian Smith pronounced, there will not be majority rule in my lifetime, there will not be majority rule in a thousand years.

And a short three years later, there was majority rule in this country.

So, Emmerson Mnangagwa may not be there when the majority rule comes back to Zimbabwe because we don’t have majority rule at the moment. But wherever he will be, I hope I will have the pleasure of reminding him that ZANU PF haisikuchazotonga narinhi narinhi (ZANU PF is not going to rule forever and ever) because the people will have reaffirmed their self-determination, their independence and their democracy.

16. Dr Makoni, maybe some might say you are speaking from a privileged position, when you were young, the situation in as far as the economy is concerned or was concerned was relatively better than it is at the moment.

You had an opportunity to go to Britain to pursue your further studies, you came back here, you set up your own businesses. At one point you became SADC executive secretary, you were able to buy your farm during the willing buyer-willing seller period.

You were still young then, it means you were a privileged young person. What message do you have to hopeless Zimbabweans who feel discouraged, defeated, depressed and oppressed who might be saying Dr Makoni has no right to tell us this because he is speaking from a privileged position, he is not in our shoes, if he were to get into our shoes now, probably he would change his mind?

It’s a tough one, I must concede. But let us define the privileges you say I have. It’s not unearned privilege. I wouldn’t call it privilege. I am where I am, at the moment, because I worked to be there.

Everything that you have enumerated being executive secretary of SADC, being able to buy my own farm and starting my own businesses are not things I was handed on a platter by anybody. Yes, I was appointed to be executive secretary of SADC.

I did not contest in an election but I assume if I wasn’t judged qualifying, I wouldn’t have been appointed. So, it wasn’t a privilege given on a platter. It was earned by the competences that they saw in me. I hate to have to sound like I am blowing my own trumpet.

But I am privileged because I can share personal experiences of the times that I have lived in our country and the experiences I have shared from a young activist.

I started my activism at secondary school and growing up, going to university, being expelled from university and doing everything because of the motivation I had for a higher value.

Not just a higher value for myself but a higher value for all of us which remains the moving spirit, it remains the mortar force that drives me in doing everything that I am trying to do right now. What is good for me and for all of us and for more of us.

So, my message to young people is that when I was growing up in Rhodesia and we couldn’t buy a house in Mt Pleasant, even if we could afford to buy a house in Mt Pleasant and we couldn’t buy clear beer on the shelves of the supermarket but you had to go to a side window and you couldn’t buy a farm in Goromonzi and Glendale but you would have to buy a farm in Zviyambe or Chitora.

Those were hardships of that time. If we had a scale to measure the hardships of my time with the hardships of today, I don’t know if we would say today’s hardships are heavier than the hardships of my time. They are different, that I concede.

But are they easier to solve during my time than it is now? I would say no, a struggle is a struggle and anything that has been christened struggle is hard, it’s harsh. It comes with pain. So, to the young people, I would say don’t expect good out of nothing.

There is a Shona saying, ‘Chinonaka chinodhura( Beautiful things do not come easy), I don’t know what the English translation is but you can’t get something good out of nothing. You have to sweat for it, you have to labor for it.

If it comes easy, like the young man tying the shoelaces of Tagwirei. It’s not easy because you are losing your humanity, you are losing your decency, you are losing your dignity. Is that any easier than being in a trench firing bullets?

Those who can measure the weight of tying Tagwirei’s shoelaces compared to fighting Rhodesian soldiers can do the weighing. All I can say is, and all I can share from my personal experience is, once it’s named struggle, it’s hard. And once it’s named good, it doesn’t come easy.

17. Dr Makoni, maybe some would say that they left university but have never been employed elsewhere to get money to do some savings so that they can start a business but during your time you were able to go to work soon after leaving university and after working for sometime ,you would have saved some money to start a business or to do other things.

You know, I saw one Zimbabwean business person speaking at Davos that one of the problems in Africa is most young people have business ideas but the majority of them do not have start up capital to start businesses.

Maybe, during your time you were able to go to a bank, take a loan but now there is nothing. What would you say?

Makoni: This observation you are making touches the nub of the earlier discussion we had about the nature of the current struggle compared to the earlier struggle or struggles.

Our failure of leadership and our failure of development is that today, in spite of this reality you have described, young people go to university and to college and to technical college and even to secondary school to be taught how to be employed.

We are not teaching how to be employers. So, that is the nature of the challenge of the struggle we are facing now. This is the challenge of the development paradigm that hasn’t changed.

The liberation brought a new anthem, it brought a new flag, it brought new faces into offices but it didn’t change the nature of our being, the nature of our lives. Let me not sound very philosophical or even theoretical.

What I am saying is, yes, when I went to university. I was taught to be employed in a chemistry laboratory. But the conditions prevailing then could offer me a job.

Yes, I could borrow to buy a house and pay for it over 25 years. I could borrow to buy a farm and pay for it over 20 years. We can’t do that now because we have destroyed that kind of economy.

So, the starting point is what kind of development are we leading our country to, at the moment? We haven’t led our country into development. We have led our country into under-development, de-development because the water, the electricity, the firewood that I could get at that time, I can’t get now and yet I have not been offered the alternative.

So, that’s where the challenge is and this is where our leadership is failing us. And that businessman is right when he says the young man is being trained to be employed. He is not being trained to employ and until Simba Makoni, Clayton Gonese, etc, create the mindset that says to professors at the University of Zimbabwe, don’t teach accountants to be employed. Don’t teach children to look for a job.

But it’s not enough just to shout the slogan, “don’t learn or train to look for a job.” What must they learn, instead? I watched a very stimulating video from China, kindergarten children under 7 years, they were building things at their kindergarten school.

We go to kindergarten to sing A, B, C, D, E and it ends there. So, I would say I do not have the final answers to the situation you have explained. It’s a situation I live with everyday also even in my little world in a farm in Headlands because of the number of people who appear at our gate looking for jobs. And I would say those of us who aspire to be leaders, I don’t think the current crop of leaders can deal with the situation we are talking about now.

That’s why Mnangagwa is creating  4ED’s because he can’t solve this problem as a leader. It’s the new crop of leaders who must usher in a new paradigm, a new development process that creates self-determined people and who then build a self-determined nation.

18. Some young persons might probably come to you and say that yes it’s good that we must be taught not to become employees but employers in order to start our businesses but in our Zimbabwean context, for you to start a business, you have to pay a bribe to ZANU PF. Young people would probably say they do not have enough money to compete with big guys who started earlier on. What would you say?

Makoni: I think the first persuasion I would like to promote to our young people especially, is not to assume that the current status quo will persist forever. It’s going to change and it could change quite dramatically like Ian Smith in 1976 and independence in April 1980.

It could be that fast, that dramatic. When the so-called Operation Restore Legacy took place, it was just over two weeks from when Grace Mugabe said, “ Baba vacharamba vachitonga nyangwe tichivasunda mubhara( He will rule even if he becomes wheel-chair bound)”.

It happened quite dramatically. You know, change has a knack to happen when you least expect it. So, that’s the first encouragement I would share with young people, particularly, this situation will not last forever. Nothing lasts forever, firstly.

Secondly, but change will not make itself.  We have to make the change that we deserve. So, young people should not resign themselves to fate. They shouldn’t resign themselves to themselves to the 4ED movements.

We must work for change in the various locations, it may be even change in the place where I am before we make the change nationally. But we have to make the change nationally. We have to work for it. It won’t come by itself.

And this is something I must implore young people, particularly those who can read, to go through the history, including our history of struggle and see the role that young people played in the liberation of this country.

Then, you can understand and appreciate the pivotal role, the strategic role that young people have to play in creating our future.

But having said that, I would be disingenuous, I would be dishonest if I didn’t accept and acknowledge that the environment we are living under currently is very harsh and very hostile. But, that in itself is no condemnation to eternal poverty.

It is a stimulation to creativity and initiative to make the change in a different way from the change that we made from minority racial domination.

Where does this take us? It takes us to the issue of leadership. It remains the central issue that we must have leadership that sees beyond our noses.

And it must be leadership that’s not content with five, seven, ten, a hundred of them being able to give handouts to everybody else, that is not assured of sustenance and sustainability.

So, again, I come back to the young people. Let’s not despair, let’s not give up. If you were in my shoes in 1968, when I was a form 4 boy and the Rhodesian forces were all over the place, suppressing us and oppressing us, you would have felt the way that young people are feeling today, that if you don’t join ZANU PF, you can’t put food on your table.

They were recruiting Africans to the European side and saying, we have our Africans and the nationalists were labelled bad Africans who were being persuaded and misled by the communists.

Today, they will say the same, they will not say by the communists, they will say by the imperialists. But it’s the same notion which says, ‘you can’t think for yourself, you can’t do for yourself, you have to be an agent of somebody else’, it’s sad.

You know, when I hear Mnangagwa say, “ Aaaah varikufurirwa nevekunze( They are being used by the imperialists)”, exactly what Ian Smith was saying about him when he said we want our independence and he would say you are being misled by the communists.

He is doing exactly the same, it’s sad. It means he is not liberated and what we need is young people who are liberated in their minds before their bodies are liberated.

19. Dr. Mokoni, there is one thing that I have noticed in people like you, Dr. Nkosana Moyo, Tendai Biti, etc. This technocratic mind, being thorough, you know, this mind that understands statecraft, this kind of competence that is so rare.

Makoni: It is very rare indeed. Because even in our current body politic, you can pinpoint that I know people like Dr. Makoni, people like Tendai Biti, people like Dr. Nkosana Moyo, etc. You have this rare kind of substance that is lacking in our politics.

What would you say needs to be done to bring it, or what would you say that you, Tendai Biti and Dr. Nkosana Moyo, etc, have to do, to make sure that you don’t go to the grave with all these important ingredients that are needed to build countries?

Yeah, the first thing I would say, Clayton, is that the three of us that you have named are not unique. We are not the only ones. There are millions of Zimbabweans. There are millions upon millions of Africans who share the characteristics you have just explained the.

You’re very kind to me because I don’t think I belong in same league as Nkosana Moyo and Tendai Biti. But I’m flattered to be placed there. But the point you’re making about competence, about expertise is the bedrock of our future.

Our future, has to be anchored on competence, on skill, on expertise, and especially on integrity and dignity. If you have integrity and dignity, you’re not likely to be corrupt.

You’re not likely to be cruel. You’re not likely to steal from those who don’t have and amass for yourself.

But I need to convince you and other colleagues who are sharing this conversation that the characteristics that you have explained as being presented by the three of us are not unique.

Millions and millions of Zimbabweans and Africans are like us, they have competence, they went to school, to college, even better than the three of us, in the case of some of them.

But even if they didn’t acquire a PhD, they acquired knowledge and even today they are still acquiring knowledge which if given two conditions, two prerequisites, firstly the environment, the political, the social, the ecological environment, even, that recognizes, encourages and rewards, they will show it.

But the other aspect and they might think I am being harsh on them, all these colleagues and counterparts of mine with skills and expertise, integrity and honesty, don’t believe that they have it because if they did they would be showing it in every location where they are whether varikumusika kuMbare, kuna Rezende street or kwa Mubayira( vendors in Mbare, at Rezende street or in Mubayira), they would still exhibit it.

And I think the biggest challenge is for them to believe in themselves, that they have it, they have what it takes not to be corrupt and not to be corrupted, they have what it takes to fend for themselves, even in this harsh environment.

I think if we start by convincing ourselves that we are competent, we have skills, we have expertise and being competent doesn’t require a degree, being competent doesn’t require a certificate, it’s within us.

A degree helps to reinforce the innate competence that we have but it’s a natural talent that each one of us is born with and we need to accentuate that. We need to proliferate it, we need to pronounce it, we need to amplify it. That’s what I would say. 

20. Thank you very much, Dr. Makoni, for your time, your parting few words to Zimbabweans?

Makoni: My parting few words to Zimbabweans, is don’t give up on yourselves. Don’t let your life just waste away because of Emmerson Mnangagwa and zvigananda (very corrupt thieves).

As the original slogan of ZANU said, I think it’s relevant now probably than it was in 1963. We are our own liberators. Thank you.

About the interviewer: Clayton Gonese is a 24 year old young man with a passion for journalism. He can be contacted on +263788159037 (Zimbabwe)