SW Radio Africa interviews former US President Jimmy Carter

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26 November 2008

SW Radio Africa journalist Violet Gonda interviews former US President Jimmy Carter

Gonda: My guest on the programme Hot Seat is former President of the US Jimmy Carter who is also a member of the globally respected group of Elders. Thank you for agreeing to talk to us Mr President.

Carter: It’s a real pleasure to be with you and all your listeners around the world

Gonda: Can you start by telling us the latest situation on your humanitarian mission to Zimbabwe?

Carter: Well Graça Machel who is a women’s activist and also the wife of Nelson Mandela and former secretary general of the United Nations Kofi Annan and I represent the Elders here. Ever since the formation of our group we have been looking very closely at Zimbabwe and we came here on a strictly humanitarian mission not to get involved in the detailed political negotiations which are under the auspices of former president Thabo Mbeki and SADC, but to understand what is going on in Zimbabwe.

Our plan was to go into Zimbabwe and meet with the humanitarian workers and government leaders to see what we as former political leaders could do to help to publicize the plight of the suffering people of Zimbabwe and to marshal more assistance and to try and work out better accommodations between the government of Zimbabwe and those who are trying to help the suffering people.

But to our dismay and surprise the government of Zimbabwe has refused to permit us to enter the country. We had understood in advance that if we went to the airport in Harare from Johannesburg we would be granted visas, but when we arrived in South Africa and met with former president Mbeki he relayed a message to us from President Mugabe that we would not be welcome and we would not be issued visas and not be given any cooperation if we tried to come into Zimbabwe.

So what we have done is to have some extremely fruitful meetings of exactly the same kind that we would have had if we were in Zimbabwe. We have met with Zimbabwean leaders who go back and forth between here and their home country in business, finance and so forth. And we have arranged for a large number of Zimbabweans to come from Harare to Johannesburg where we have been meeting now for the last two days and we continue to meet today and tomorrow and it has been a very enlightening and satisfying experience for us. So that is what is going on with us.

Gonda: I don’t know if you have received these reports but the Zimbabwean government actually denies barring you, saying you have been advised to reschedule the trip to a mutually agreed date in the future. What’s your take on that?

Carter: I don’t understand that. That is not the information we received. Maybe sometime in the distant future is their plan but they knew three weeks ago for instance that I was coming. I applied in the normal way in their embassy in Washington and let them know that we were coming. I think Kofi Annan and Graça Machel had the same information we had. Our staff is here under the leadership of the Elders CEO Chief Executive Officer, Mabel van Oranje and they have been in Zimbabwe making plans for our trip in the last few days before we arrived.

Gonda: We talk to Zimbabweans daily and they say the situation is now uncontainable. You know, especially with the spread of the cholera epidemic that has killed scores of people countrywide and the authorities are not dealing with this crisis at all. Now people want hope. What can you as the Elders practically do? What urgent measures do you think you can take?

Carter: Well we don’t have any authority. What we can do is bring the world’s attention to the horrendous situation that has evolved throughout Zimbabwe particularly in the last few weeks. The situation is getting worse by the day and apparently the government has very little concern for the suffering of the people but obviously their number one goal is to remain in power. We have become thoroughly familiar with the power sharing agreement that was negotiated and signed on September the 15th which seems to be fair and they are working now on a constitutional amendment that will establish the office of Prime Minister for the first time to be held by Mr Tsvangirai.

Apparently there has been no indication on the part of President Mugabe that he has any intention of sharing any real authority with anyone from the opposite political party, which is contrary to the will of the people. There is very little doubt in my mind that Tsvangirai actually won the election back in March, and even after a five week delay the election authorities - controlled by Mugabe - revealed that Tsvangirai got a minimal vote.

But then with the intimidation of the people and the political punishment of Tsvangirai and his party members the run-off became impossible. So it is an illegitimate government imposing their will on the people of Zimbabwe and they made 4 million Zimbabweans leave the country.

Some are going back and forth across the border, they have elite status within the government. They can exchange currencies at very beneficial rates and they are becoming extremely rich on the plight of the poorest people.

And of course with the schools basically closing down, the hospitals are closing down there are confrontations within the streets between doctors and nurses who want to serve their patients and police who are trying to control them. Most of the health centres are closed and everyday the inflation rate continues to go up at an astronomical rate. People are being deprived of food.

Many teachers are being paid less that US$1 per month. They can’t even afford transportation costs to go to and from school. And now most of the students who are going to school – and there are very few of them – they go to school only to receive something to eat.

So the entire situation in Zimbabwe is getting worse and worse. In the meantime the other African leaders in the Southern part of Africa under SADC have not taken any bold action. They won’t even use their influence to encourage Mugabe to comply with the agreement that he himself signed back in September.

Gonda: Do you see a connection between the humanitarian crisis and the political crisis in Zimbabwe and can one be resolved without the other?

Carter: Well the political crisis is the key to it but the results of course is a humanitarian disaster that is taking place there. The lack of political progress is causing the humanitarian disaster. There is no question that the two are intimately connected and inseparable.

Gonda: So if it is clear that this humanitarian crisis cannot be resolved until the political crisis is solved - and you stated earlier on that you will not get in the way of the talks – now if putting political pressure is not your mandate then who can?

Carter: The ones that can of course are the other African leaders who have this responsibility but make no effort to deny that. But they have been completely ineffective and very timid in encouraging or forcing Mugabe to accept the results of the negotiations that he, himself approved back in September.

So he has retained complete power - and there is no indication from any of the leaders who have come out from Zimbabwe to talk to us, including Ambassadors of major nations that he has the intention to doing so. So I think that quandary in the political situation is what’s causing the continued escalation of the humanitarian crisis.

Of course the key to the SADC power and influence is in South Africa and former President Thabo Mbeki has not performed that duty as an interlocutor or negotiator or an expeditor – he has several titles. We have met with him and I don’t think he has shown any inclination or desire to put real pressure on Mugabe.

Gonda: And obviously you have formed this highly regarded and globally respected group that is trying to bring some sort of moral correctness in this world but what measures can you as the group of Elders actually take considering the political mess in Zimbabwe and considering that the regional leaders – as you said – are completely ineffectual and very timid?

Carter: Obviously the Elders don’t have any political authority ourselves, but what we can do is bring attention to the continued plight of the people. To let the people of Zimbabwe know that we are here and paying attention to them and we understand their plight.

We are doing whatever we can and when we return to our different homes - in our communication with our own people and those who are providing donor assistance - we will continue to strengthen the supply of food and medicines that are very much needed in Zimbabwe and to strengthen the determination of the Zimbabwean people to let them know that the outside world cares very much about them.

And so we will continue to stay involved in the process and of course write op-ed pieces and do interviews of this kind. But the main thing that we wanted to do was to come here and get to know the Zimbabwean people and what their developing catastrophe is and we will continue to do everything we can about it. But the political responsibility still rests upon the leaders of these countries, the nations in Southern Africa - particularly those that are contiguous to Zimbabwe.

Gonda: And how do you respond to accusations by the Mugabe regime that you have partisan interests.

Carter: We don’t have any partisan interests, our only interest is in the people in Zimbabwe who are suffering. We don’t have any ties to any political group.

Gonda: How do you respond to people who say perhaps you should have defied the regime and actually gone to Zimbabwe rather than wait until a later stage, when people are currently suffering - because you would imagine that if the crisis was this catastrophic where people are dying on a daily basis they would have actually allowed you in but they didn’t?

Carter: Well it’s impossible for any average citizen to go into a country when the President of a country and his regime is determined that you cannot come in and you cannot get a visa, you can’t get a pass, you can’t get any sort of protection when you get there and you don’t know what’s going to you from the regime itself. So it was a waste for us to go in after President Mugabe decided that we could not come in and that was his decision.

And I think this is further proof that the regime is much more interested in retaining political power and of course some of them are profiteering enormously financially by manipulating the currency and so forth and benefitting from the catastrophe of their fellow citizens in Zimbabwe.

So we will continue to try and maintain interest on the humanitarian plight of the people of Zimbabwe and hope that they can understand – through your own broadcast and other means that we genuinely care about them and that the outside world has not forgotten about them. And we will continue to work on this problem until they have the freedom and an end to the abuse that’s being imposed upon them and the deprivation that is being caused by their own political leaders.

Gonda: You did meet with the Prime Minister designate Mr. Morgan Tsvangirai. What did he have to say about this?

Carter: Well, he is very concerned about the people there. He was hoping that we could go into Zimbabwe and he is very eager, according to what he says, to comply with the agreement of September the 15th and to get Amendment no.19 passed that would establish the office of Prime Minister, which he expects to occupy in accordance with the agreement that Mugabe accepted back in September.

Gonda: You said at your press conference in South Africa that you have never been refused a visa to undertake a humanitarian mission. So do you feel you were snubbed by the regime?

Carter: (chuckles) Well I don’t feel that. It doesn’t hurt me. Obviously it does hurt the ability of all of us Elders to report first hand on what’s going on in the streets, homes, in schools and in the hospitals and the food lines and so forth of Zimbabwe. All we can do is report what we have been told by the people who have come to meet us from Zimbabwe. We were able to get a number of visas approved and to get aeroplane tickets for people to fly from Harare to Johannesburg and back. So we have learnt everything we could but unfortunately it is second hand. But I think the information we got is accurate.

We also learnt that the leaders of the donor nations and also the leaders of non governmental organisations like Save the Children, Care and World Vision and so forth have no relationship at all with the national government in Harare. They won’t even talk to them or acknowledge that there is an economic and humanitarian catastrophe in Zimbabwe. So they are isolated from Zimbabwe almost as much as we are.

Gonda: And a final word to the people of Zimbabwe?

Carter: Just don’t forget all of you who live in Zimbabwe and listen to this broadcast that not only the elders who couldn’t be permitted to visit with you but I think the leaders of many nations in the world and those who are in authority are increasingly concerned about your plight and we hope that this could be resolved soon and we are praying that your suffering will be alleviated.

Gonda: Mr President thank you very much.

Carter: I have enjoyed talking with you. Thank you.

Gonda: That was former US President Jimmy Carter one of the members of a group called the Elders which was created by former South African President Nelson Mandela to promote Humanitarian causes.

Feedback can be emailed to violet@swradioafrica.com

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