Transcript: Thomas Mapfumo on Mugabe, Chiyangwa and Winky D

By Lance Guma

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LEICESTER – Legendary Zimbabwe musician Thomas Mapfumo was a guest on Nehanda TV during his ‘History Tour’ with Oliver Mtukudzi in the UK. Journalist Lance Guma caught up with Mapfumo in Leicester and asked a variety of questions.

Lance Guma: Hello Zimbabwe and thank you for joining us on Nehanda TV, my name is Lance Guma. It’s an honour to have Dr Thomas ‘Mukanya’ Mapfumo joining us on our first ever production of Nehanda TV.

Congratulations on a hugely successful ‘History Tour’. The obvious question is, for most of us growing up, we were always under the impression that Oliver Mtukudzi and Thomas Mapfumo are bitter rivals.

Thomas Mapfumo: Why, why should you think like that? Oliver has been my friend, we played music while we were still boys, we are still playing together and I even gave him one of my songs to sing. He is a good friend of mine.

Guma: Why is it that the media always had this thing that when you were playing your songs you were aiming at each other.

Mapfumo: I don’t know why they do that because I always talk to Oliver. Whether he is in South Africa or he is here, whether he is in Zimbabwe, sometimes I call him on the phone and he calls me on the phone.

We always talk and we would like maybe one day to work together, record music together. He is a good friend of mine. Every musician in Zimbabwe, I mean they are friends, yah.

Guma: One person we definitely know you are not friends with is Winky D. Do you think the media is making too much of it?

Mapfumo: Winky D is a friend of mine. I don’t care what he says about me, he is just a kid; he doesn’t know what he is doing anyway. But he is a good friend of mine. I want him to take the right direction and do his music so that he can be appreciated in this world.

Cause you know if you sing ragga music, it’s all about, that’s Jamaican stuff you understand. You have to do it the Jamaican way and you have to try and speak their language, which is Patwa and people will understand you.

This was my advice to him. I don’t know how he is taking it; he thought maybe I was blaming him for playing that type of music.

Guma: Is it not unique though that at least he is singing in Shona which is a bit different from what the others are doing?

Mapfumo: No, no, no, we are trying to spread our music all over the world, so today a lot of people are speaking English. You want to sell your music here abroad? You have to sing in English. This is what I told him, yah, because people wanna here what you are saying.

Most of these people, they speak English. Even the Chinese will ask you, why don’t you record in English? Of course singing in our mother language is not bad, like I do, we got mbira music that we play, you cannot sing that in English, yah, that’s something original and you cannot change that.

But when you go into this jungle, you have to change. Look at Lucky Dube. When he went into reggae music, he did it the right way. He was singing in English, so that the rest of the world, even the Jamaicans, they actually appreciated what he was doing because they could hear him, they could hear his lyrics.

It’s a good advice because he wants money at the end of the day. You want to sell your music, so if you do it in Shona, your music is gonna be very limited. It will be for the locals.

Guma: The news that dominated headlines around this show are your reported plans to go back to Zimbabwe. There is a lot of excitement, that after 8 years you are finally coming back home. Talk us through this, is this true?

Mapfumo: People say you are coming back home, that’s my home. Coming back home, where? I am working here. Everyone who is here overseas is working and Zimbabwe is their home, and when they go there, they just go there, it’s their home, they just go there, it’s not coming back home, no.

Guma: But your fans back home in Zimbabwe miss you?

Mapfumo: Well, well, well we have a long time without going back home to play music, but at the same time I know they miss us, but at the same time we miss them too. But at the same time they should know that I am a Zimbabwean and my grave will be in Zimbabwe. I will be there no matter what it takes.

Guma: So are you looking at just holding shows in Zimbabwe or are you looking at the possibility of settling back there permanently?

Mapfumo: Let people stay where they wanna stay in this world. They are free to stay anywhere.

Guma: So I take it you have no plans of going back?

Mapfumo: (laughs)… I have plans to go back and play music but staying in America is another thing. That’s where my family is. It’s my other home.

Guma: You are enjoying it there, I take it?

Mapfumo: Off course, you know America is all about music and you wanna be at a place like that.

Guma: I have been looking at your itinerary for shows in America, you are very busy, you have gigs all over, zvinenge zviri kufamba?

Guma: I understand you have a new album out, Dangerzones, what is it about?

Mapfumo: It’s also World on Fire. A lot of people have been listening to our music, I mean criticising maybe the political situation back home. It’s not that we hate whoever is in power, even President Robert Mugabe.

I like him, he fought in the struggle, he is our man, but we need to change our system so that we can look after the poor people, the people who are suffering today, they have been suffering for so many years and we cannot let that go on.

We have to do something so that those poor people know should know that we are free and we got freedom.

Guma: But it must be a tough one for you, you are in exile evidently because of the political situation yet you have friends within the system like Webster Shamu?

Mapfumo: He is a good friend of mine. I don’t hate nobody, I love everyone, even within the police force, I have good friends, the soldiers, my good friends, I have a lot of good friends, the army the police, some ministers who are working with the government, they are good friends of mine.

And Webster (Shamu) we went to school together and he is like part of my family. When I talk to him it’s like talking to my brother.

Guma: One person you have an interesting relationship with is businessman Philip Chiyangwa, we covered a lot of reports about the war of words between you and Mr Chiyangwa. Can you set the record straight, was there a lot of media exaggeration or…

Mapfumo: It’s an exaggeration, listen Chiyangwa’s family, his brother, what’s his name, Bulk (Mr Bulk) was really a good friend of mine and even that other one who had a bar, Jimmy, we were good friends.

I just like people who work for the people. That’s where I’m coming from. I don’t wanna, Philip is one of our man and if he has the money he should also be able to help the poor people. So if he is doing that, that’s good.

You have the money, help your people ensure that they live a good life. I don’t have no conflict with him, I talk to him on the phone. He is always talking about arranging shows in Zimbabwe and I have always been willing to go back and play music as long as it is done in the proper way.

Guma: But is there merit to his argument that it is much harder for someone of your stature in exile than if you were in Zimbabwe. Do you think you would be more successful in Zimbabwe than if you were in the United States? What’s your assessment?

Mapfumo: I know if I am back home there are a lot of things that, you know I would like to do, maybe work with the other musicians or do other things and also I have a lot of good friends there and a lot of fans who follow my music and like I told you that’s my home.

If you are home, home is where the heart is, they always say that. You can go out there and work but still come back home.

Guma: It’s been quite a journey for you, I mean from the age of 16 when you first joined your first band The Zutu Brothers. What would you highlight as the best moment of your career?

Mapfumo: (laughs)…the best moment of my career, I would say is, when I started playing my own music. Off course I played a lot of different types of music like rock n roll, soul music and other types of music and that was good.

But when I started doing my music, the feeling was really good because this was really Thomas Mapfumo now, you understand? And I was actually into my, trying to identify myself with my own people. I actually had to leave copyright music and start doing the type of music that I am doing today.

Guma: And what would you describe as the worst moment of your career?

Mapfumo: The worst moment was during the liberation war. We really had, sometimes we had hardships. You know what I’m talking about? We used to tour the rest of Zimbabwe when the war was at its peak.

We faced a lot of other things, I would really want to write a book and that book is going to be very interesting and other stories that people don’t even know, that will make people laugh, but that was the worst moment because we were not free. But right now our country is free.

We need as Zimbabweans to put our heads together, make sure that everyone who is living in Zimbabwe is living a good life. We are trying to avoid the blame that will come against us from those who were in the power yesterday. So if we develop Zimbabwe, then the rest of the world will appreciate.

Guma: On a lighter note, what sort of things do you do in your spare time?

Mapfumo: Well, spare time I go to church, Sunday. I go for church service. I practice music.

Guma: I take it yours is not Masowe?

Mapfumo: (laughs)…. we sometimes go for fishing, that’s in America. We go for fishing we do other things, like just meeting friends, talking about music, we got a lot of friends who are also musicians and friends who are not musicians.

So sometimes you are busy you wanna write a song, you wanna talk to your family, yes, just like that you meet the people that you love, you do your work. That’s what I do.

Guma: Final question and this is a confession from me. Before we conducted this interview we had been warned by several people that “ungwarire Mukanya anogona kungo ku shaudha – be careful of Mukanya he can shout at you anytime”. And I must say it’s a big contrast from the warning and meeting the actual person. You are a very jovial character

Mapfumo: (laughs)… do I look like the person who could do that?

Guma: I suppose it’s the impression a lot of people have of you maybe, from the way the media cover you, kuti you are a very cash talk kind of individual.

Mapfumo: I am an outspoken person. If you are a good friend of mine I will take it as it is. If maybe you are trying to be my enemy, I will try to change you. Yah I will try to change you to be my friend and this is what I do.

And when I tell you, if I tell you the truth, then that’s good, why should I hide the truth? If you do bad things I will tell you, look what you are doing is bad. If you do good things, I will tell you, look this is very good and I will appreciate and maybe add something good to what you are doing.

Guma: Dr Mapfumo it’s been a pleasure and an honour to have you on Nehanda TV, thank you for joining us.

To contact this journalist email [email protected] or follow him on twitter @LanceGuma