ZAPU spokesman Methuseli Moyo on BTH

Behind the Headlines, Interviews, News — By on August 25, 2009 11:25 am

Interview broadcast 13/08/09 

Lance Guma: Hello Zimbabwe and welcome to Behind the Headlines. My guest this week is the spokesperson for ZAPU, Mr Methuseli Moyo. Now you will be aware ZAPU recently broke away from Zanu-PF. Now the reason why we’ve decided to get Mr Moyo is because of the swirling speculation that Robert Mugabe has offered their party president Dumiso Dabengwa the vice presidency following the death of Joseph Msika. So of course we got the ball rolling by asking Mr. Moyo about this speculation. 

Methuseli Moyo: Well as far as that is concerned there is no truth in it, we’ve just seen the media reports but when we checked the source of the story its coming from someone who is neither from the president’s office nor from ZAPU so clearly if you analyse the source of the story, it’s a bit misplaced and in fact I don’t think anyone will really believe such a story. 

Guma: What has Mr Dabengwa himself said regarding the story?

Moyo: Mr. Dabengwa has denied everything about the story. He says he hasn’t met President Mugabe or anyone from Zanu-PF. In any case why would Dabengwa leave his own party to join another party where he’s going to be a Vice President, when he’s the leader of ZAPU? 

Guma: Do you think maybe what’s happening is there’s a lot of in-fighting within Zanu-PF and they can’t find someone senior enough within their ZAPU ranks who maybe can fill in Joseph Msika’s boots? 

Moyo: Yah, I think it’s more to do with the dilemma in Zanu-PF, the problem in Zanu-PF. When Dabengwa and others pulled out of Zanu PF clearly they left a very big void in Zanu-PF. When you speak to Zanu-PF members, particularly from Matabeleland they are saying none of the people in Zanu-PF right now deserve to take over from Msika and there is some kind of a wish that perhaps if Dabengwa was still in Zanu-PF he could provide that leadership but unfortunately he is ZAPU right now. 

Guma: What happens if these stories that are swirling around actually turn out to be true and Zanu-PF is actually making moves towards getting Dabengwa as vice president, what would be the reaction of your party?

Moyo: It would be unbelievable to start with. We don’t believe right now that there’s anyone who is in ZAPU who would want to go back to Zanu. You know Zanu had 20 years during the Unity Accord and they failed to convince people to stay in Zanu-PF and I don’t think there is a miracle which they can perform now to correct all the bad things that made us leave Zanu-PF. You know they failed over a period of 20 years so what would happen now that Msika has died which can make anyone believe that Zanu-PF is reformed. 

Guma: When you broke away one of your major complaints was that you were being marginalised, would having Dabengwa as Vice President go some way towards appeasing you? 

Moyo: Not really. Remember (Joshua) Nkomo, politically Nkomo was a towering figure, he was a giant but he failed to convince Robert Mugabe to be fair with his colleagues from ZAPU. Msika came but he failed so we don’t believe that any other person, you know the same applies to Dabengwa, would convince Mugabe or Zanu-PF to reform. Now they have the danger of being left alone and they would want to convince us now that they have changed. But you know they always keep making promises that they don’t deliver. 

Guma: I suppose Mugabe finds himself in a unique position or rather the unique problem that he faces is that we are told before Msika died, he had insisted that Dabengwa should succeed him, so there’s that view that it would be a way of honouring Msika’s wish. 

Moyo: Yah it is unfortunate because now Msika’s gone and people are coming up with all sorts of stories. There are people who claim that Msika actually said Dabengwa must remain in ZAPU and revive ZAPU, others are claiming that he told Mugabe that Dabengwa must be brought back to Zanu-PF. So it’s really difficult to know the truth but clearly it would appear Mugabe is desperate to have some kind of a strong politician from the western region of the country and that can only be Dumiso Dabengwa right now, but unfortunately I think all of us in ZAPU, if for sure the story was true would do everything in our powers to make sure that Dabengwa doesn’t go back to Zanu-PF. 

Guma: Could there be a possibility that Mugabe has had a private chat with Dabengwa without the party knowing? 

Moyo: Oh you can never rule out that possibility but I think, and this is my own thinking, that if perhaps I was in Mugabe’s situation right now it may be better to try and invite Dabengwa to the inclusive government but not necessarily to Zanu-PF. I think that’s my own personal interpretation, but perhaps even if they were approaches you know I wouldn’t imagine Dabengwa leaving ZAPU to go and join Zanu-PF but if he was approached to come and join the inclusive government, that’s a different issue now. 

Guma: OK let’s look at the issue of replacing Msika. This is happening because of the 1987 Unity Accord between Zanu-PF and ZAPU, now you guys have pulled out so what’s your attitude towards Zanu-PF still looking for someone within the ZAPU ranks to be vice president?

Moyo: Well our position on that is very clear. We pulled out of Zanu-PF, we have nothing to do with Zanu-PF anymore, they are free to nominate whomsoever that they want to succeed Msika, not necessarily anyone from ZAPU or any part of the country. You know they should be free but there are people who were in ZAPU who remained in Zanu-PF because of the prospect of going up the ladder at Zanu-PF and they always try and use the name of ZAPU and even Matabeleland for instance to try and advance their selfish interests within Zanu-PF. In ZAPU we are out of Zanu-PF, those people who remained there they are there on their own, they should work to succeed Msika as individuals, as individual leaders in Zanu-PF without you know…they should be stopped from trying to intimidate others by using the name of ZAPU or Matabeleland. 

Guma: I know I may be asking you to speculate Mr Moyo but why do you think this story about Mugabe offering Dabengwa the vice presidency, why do you think it’s out there if it’s not true? 

Moyo: Well I think there could be other motives. There are people who are anxious they are trying to imagine that if things were like this how would people react, you’d imagine that someone is trying to test the waters, but so far from our side there’s been no excitement at all. 

Guma: There was an accusation I saw in one story some people in Zanu-PF are accusing ZAPU of systematically tearing down their structures in rural Matabeleland and forming ZAPU structures. Is this true?

Moyo: It is true people are leaving Zanu-PF en masse and coming to ZAPU although it’s more to do with pull and push factors, people choose a party of their choice but what is true really is that there are no Zanu-PF structures, even starting from the highest level of Zanu-PF going down, you can see clearly that some of the people who are still in Zanu-PF now at least so they say, some of them are in ZAPU, you know they are in ZAPU, some of them have actually joined, some haven’t joined, but they keep coming to our offices and phoning us and saying please go ahead we’ll join you later. 

Guma: You have the situation where there are some former ZAPU members or members who are still within Zanu-PF who were formally ZAPU, the likes of Sikhanyiso Ndlovu and others, what’s your attitude towards them? Are you trying to encourage them to join you, do you have an open doorway if they do decide to defect they can join? What’s the attitude towards them?

Moyo: Yes our attitude really is that people are free to join ZAPU from any other party, Zanu-PF or any other party they are free. In connection with those leaders that you have mentioned, they are always free, we acknowledge that they were ZAPU, we believe why they remained in Zanu-PF, they’ve made individual choices to remain there and they are free to remain in Zanu-PF and they are also free to come back to ZAPU if they so wish but they have to make up their minds quickly, we are going to our congress next year, there’ll be a ZAPU congress where we will be coming up with our substantive leadership after which there’ll be no positions anymore. So it’s between now and early next year, after that if they join us after that they’ll have to come back as ordinary members of the party. 

Guma: Talking about your structures, we understand you had a very good turnout at your inaugural meetings in the United Kingdom, the ZAPU structures in the United Kingdom, are you very encouraged by that?

Moyo: Yes we are, not only the United Kingdom, you should go to South Africa, Botswana, basically all the countries people are very, they seem to be very excited about ZAPU, we get messages, telephone calls from everywhere, people wanting to join. From that angle it is quite encouraging. 

Guma: But I suppose ZAPU will always be dogged by the stigmatization that it is a very regional party, are you doing anything to demystify this? 

Moyo: Yes actually that was a myth that was created by Zanu-PF towards the elections in 1980. If you know the history of the liberation of Zimbabwe, ZAPU was the authentic liberation movement, it’s well documented, the rest were splinters so in a way these were people who were trying to defeat ZAPU, it worked in 1980 to say that ZAPU was a tribal party but right now we have structures everywhere in the country, all the provinces, actually our best province is Mash West the majority of our members that’s where we have, our membership cards actually sold more in Mashonaland West than anywhere else and Mashonaland West is not in Matabeleland. 

Guma: Any particular reason why Mash West has been such a good hunting ground for yourself, any particular factors? 

Moyo: Yes I think the reason being that if you look at where Mashonaland West is, it formed part of the front during the war for ZIPRA and ZAPU so most of the people there, they’re almost like it was ZAPU and ZIPRA who fought the war mainly from that side so generally they connect better with ZAPU than any other party. 

Guma: OK, now one other issue that I want to raise, the issue of upcoming by-elections, we know there have been a couple of vacant constituencies that need to be filled up, I know you did issue a statement that you were going to be contesting them, how do you think you are going to perform in some of those areas? 

Moyo: Our expectations differ from area to area, depending, we are being realistic, there are areas where we know or where we have are certain we have tangible structures on the ground, particularly in Nkayi South, Bulilima East and Lupane East certainly we are certain of winning. But when it comes to the other constituencies where we still trying to come up with credible candidates who we think would carry the day for us but like I said in my previous statement, we were going into this by-election with the aim of winning. Even if we don’t win we want to announce our revival that we are now getting fully fit and that we mean to contest every election. 

Guma: Do you see yourself fighting for influence with the Mutambara MDC because a lot of people feel that is going to be your first obstacle to overcome?

Moyo: Yah I’m sure Mutambara MDC like I said they have done a lot of damage to themselves right now to an extent that in our view they no longer qualify to be called, to be classified as a party. And again, if you look at most of their MPs came from one area, they were losing in all the other areas so that should show you certainly that perhaps why they were winning in that particular area it would appear that there is no party that is strong in that particular area. So as far as we’re concerned, we don’t even for a moment imagine that MDC Mutambara would be a competitor to ZAPU. 

Guma: It’s been a pleasure having you on the programme Mr Methuseli Moyo but before I go I really have to slot in this question because just the same way I asked it, a lot of people would want clarification, before the Unity Accord it was PF-ZAPU, now you’ve split from Zanu it’s ZAPU, so that clarification – PF-ZAPU, ZAPU, how did it work?

Moyo: Yes, PF-ZAPU if you remember just before the elections in 1980, there was an attempt to unite ZANU and ZAPU to contest the elections under one, under the banner of the Patriotic Front. As ZAPU we committed ourselves to that, we were going to come home and contest the elections as the Patriotic Front but unfortunately ZANU pulled out but still retained the Patriotic Front element but the party really was ZAPU. 

Guma: OK. That was the ZAPU spokesperson Methuseli Moyo speaking to us on Behind the Headlines. Mr. Moyo thank you so much for your time. 

Moyo:  My pleasure Lance. 

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